New AC MkVI Gullwing

[nikbj68]

Thanks for sharing the contents of your letter with us, Clive.
   Diplomatic, as Rick (MarkIV)says, but candid, too. Maybe a shock or 2 there for some!
   Can we assume that you may not be acting as an agent for the MkVI?
   It would be interesting to know what (if any) differences there are between the MkVI & the 'Mohr' Gullwing Cobra, and what was the pricing of it before the AC 'alliance'?
   I presume that one can no longer buy a Gullwing Cobra, and I have to agree with Clive`s opinion that they may well be pricing themselves out of the market...and who better to judge the value of the 'premium' of the AC badge.
   Again, it`s time to draw up a seat, settle in, & see where this chapter of recent AC histery History leads.

[Clive Sutton]

Diplomatic ; Maybe ! This is a factual response to a magasine who have covered the 'new MkV1' in a vanilla style and as i am 'still contractually' the UK distributor for AC (albeit with no product to distribute) I had to ensure that the letter was not'sour grapes' or potentially libelious.  There are many things that could be said about Lubinsky but that is not my style. Try wikipedia and the history of AC there is much there!

[Clive Sutton]

However good it may be both the price and the connection with previous models will be stumbling blocks.No mention of the ever faithful John Owen the former UK engineer whose die hard loyalty to the brand and brand owner caused him so much personal grief than when I last saw him when he flew into the UK to try and get one of the my 3 Mark V's running (unsuccesfully!) he cut a forlorn Gollum like figure..  Ah the venom of the Cobra !
   

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   
Thanks for sharing the contents of your letter with us, Clive.
   Diplomatic, as Rick (MarkIV)says, but candid, too. Maybe a shock or 2 there for some!
   Can we assume that you may not be acting as an agent for the MkVI?
   It would be interesting to know what (if any) differences there are between the MkVI & the 'Mohr' Gullwing Cobra, and what was the pricing of it before the AC 'alliance'?
   I presume that one can no longer buy a Gullwing Cobra, and I have to agree with Clive`s opinion that they may well be pricing themselves out of the market...and who better to judge the value of the 'premium' of the AC badge.
   Again, it`s time to draw up a seat, settle in, & see where this chapter of recent AC histery History leads.
   

[TLegate]

It wasn't close contact with the 'Cobra' (sic) that created such misery - only people can do that....
   
   And the very best of luck to the good folk at Gullwing. Methinks they'll need it.

[aaron]

quote:Originally posted by Clive Sutton
   
Diplomatic ; Maybe ! This is a factual response to a magasine who have covered the 'new MkV1' in a vanilla style and as i am 'still contractually' the UK distributor for AC (albeit with no product to distribute) I had to ensure that the letter was not'sour grapes' or potentially libelious.  There are many things that could be said about Lubinsky but that is not my style. Try wikipedia and the history of AC there is much there!
   

   
   And there is a lot of cr*p on the Wilkipedia website,concerning the Cobra !!...[:)]

[Alan Faulkner-Stevens]

Having read the many posts on this topic I would like to add my small thoughts on one or two of the statements made. Essentially, I believe Mr. John Owen always tried his best and was a hugely loyal employee and supporter of the AC brand. He also did a great job with the CRS and Superblower models, however each has their detractions. However the Mk V cars were of a very poor build standard and cannot be in anyway be compared to the two model I have just mentioned. I know, because I critiqued two when they were are Gerry Hawkriges premises. They were hand lay-up carbon/fibreglass mating which lacked any consistancy of thickness and subsequently led to uneven and very poor panel gaps and finish. The general build quality was also sub-standard. I did not drive one so cannot comment upon that part of them, however from the build quality as delivered would decline such a task if offered. The extensive remedial work subsequently carried out may have made them a better product, but I have not seen one since.
   Should it not be considered by other AC Club members that the last of the true Factory production built cars died with the CRS and Superblower models? One note I read was also about the Superformance Cobra which is hugely popular in the States and looking at one recently, offered a very well built and finished product to a very high standard. However it has one huge problem, its body shape is very wrong and proportionally incorrect, especially when you compare it with a MkIV Lightweight which is probably the best looking of the late generation cars. This leads us on finally to the MkVI, based upon my earlier question, should not a real AC be made in England using a Ford engine and built by the same group of talented men/women who built the product up to 2002?

[Clive Sutton]

I am sure you are right about John Owen's loyalty and support to the AC brand as he was the sole AC DNA'd employee in Malta.
   You are correct that 2 of the Mark V's were at Hawk for a while and Gerry did do some initial work on one of the cars. However we used about 5 specialists to do various works to the vehicles and certainly 2 of the cars ended up in a very acceptable condition.Not comparable to the earlier cars but to a standard that we were happy to sell to a retail customer. The remaining vehicle was much improved and 'functional' but we disposed of it by auction .
   Whereever an AC is manufactured, there is a large market as we discovered when we'launched the Mark V' but found we couldnt deliver them a properly built car by a properly funded manufacturer. I have a fair size database of regular sports/luxury car owners who would jump at the chance.. Alas they will probably never realise their interest..
   
   

quote:Originally posted by Alan Faulkner-Stevens
   
Having read the many posts on this topic I would like to add my small thoughts on one or two of the statements made. Essentially, I believe Mr. John Owen always tried his best and was a hugely loyal employee and supporter of the AC brand. He also did a great job with the CRS and Superblower models, however each has their detractions. However the Mk V cars were of a very poor build standard and cannot be in anyway be compared to the two model I have just mentioned. I know, because I critiqued two when they were are Gerry Hawkriges premises. They were hand lay-up carbon/fibreglass mating which lacked any consistancy of thickness and subsequently led to uneven and very poor panel gaps and finish. The general build quality was also sub-standard. I did not drive one so cannot comment upon that part of them, however from the build quality as delivered would decline such a task if offered. The extensive remedial work subsequently carried out may have made them a better product, but I have not seen one since.
   Should it not be considered by other AC Club members that the last of the true Factory production built cars died with the CRS and Superblower models? One note I read was also about the Superformance Cobra which is hugely popular in the States and looking at one recently, offered a very well built and finished product to a very high standard. However it has one huge problem, its body shape is very wrong and proportionally incorrect, especially when you compare it with a MkIV Lightweight which is probably the best looking of the late generation cars. This leads us on finally to the MkVI, based upon my earlier question, should not a real AC be made in England using a Ford engine and built by the same group of talented men/women who built the product up to 2002?
   

[aaron]

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   

quote:Originally posted by SB7019
   
The exposed boot hinges are another nice touch!!
   

   On a positive note, no-one will ever get to see them for real!
   

   
   Famous last words Nick, you saw one in the flesh today !!

[MkIV Lux]

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   ......
   But now, we have a well-established Cobra replica being built by (by all accounts) an excellent and respected firm, being rebadged as an AC, in much the same way that the Smart Roadster was intended to be several years ago.(What ever happened to Project Kimber?)
   Carroll Shelby now endorses the Superformance Daytona Coupé and Cobra Roadster, but just because he puts his name to them, does that make them a 'Shelby' product? Personally, I say, No. It`s a paper exercise, as is Badging a Mohr(Gullwing GmbH) Cobra replica as an AC.
   Should, for example, AC have entered into this partnership not with Gullwing GmbH in Heyda, but instead with Pilgrim in Sussex, who make the 'Sumo' Cobra replica, would we recognise that from henceforth as a 'real' AC?
   Again, Personally, I say no.
   .......
   

   
   Thanks Nik, one could not express it better!
   
   I owned a Mohr replica end of the nineties. Good car. While looking for a replacement in 2001, I had the opportunity to test drive a few of the better made German replicas. CN was a top quality manufacturer at the time and I believe they still are today. Very similar to the Mohr, likely to use UK made chassis and suspension components. These are superior motorcars, also regarding handling. This was eight years ago. They have even certainly improved since.
   Nevertheless I didn't buy one as I found the MkIV in 2002 (just marginally more expensive than a good new replica at the time) and this being a true AC.
   
   However good a Mohr may be today, putting an AC badge on it does not make it an AC.
   I'ld rather put my money into a high quality Surrey made continuation Cobra produced by the AC Heritage venture.

[nikbj68]

Ok...Several points to address here!
   Aaron, yes. I take it all back. Well, no actually.[:p] My opinion that 'AC' wouldn`t be able to build another car successfully still stands, BUT I said that before it was clear that the respected German company would be building the MkVI on their proven replica platform.
   
   John Owen was at the ACOC 60th Anniversay meeting with Alan Lubinsky & Jurgen Mohr,although I don`t think they ventured down the hill from the AC Heritage centre where a Mercedes replica & the MkVI were on display) and looked well and at ease, not at all Gollum-like!
   
   Jurgen Mohr was pleasant to chat with, explaining to me many(too many for me to keep track of!)of the improvements and developments made to what was originally the Dax Supertube upon which his respected replica is based. Now making their own uprights & wishbones, using a 'vastly' superior diff, sat nav, traction control, aircon, even the door latches are of their own making; Jurgen Mohr has my respect and I certainly wish him well.
   
   Having seen the MkVI put through it`s paces at Mercedes Benz Brooklands track, it certainly appears to perform well, but you could build 2 very nice Dax` for the same money, or have a Gardner Douglas with the same engine, or a Kirkham and change...[:)]

[Alan Faulkner-Stevens]

It has already been established that the new MkVI is based upon a Dax supertube chassis with various suspension and braking upgrades along with a Chrevrolet engine. It is to be built by a company of some repute and skill in its field of replicas. These being the facts, it must therefore be asked that the vehicle being named a MkVI must be a new version of an already established car with a continuous blood-line back to the original 62 first build car. However the most important fact of blood-line is not there, because the new vehicle shares no similarities with the models that precede it. However good a car it may be or become it is not a new version of an already existing car.
   I recently took my CRS to the Octane photoshoot and had an opportunity to view the MkVI. There were an excellent number of variants of the Cobra marque from an early MkII up to a Superblower and my CRS. There were also two new superb 427 cars built by AC heritage. It was very obvious to all who looked that the shape of the larger bodied AC cars, that each had a continuity in shape and form from the beautiful aluminum 427 cars, to the Lightweights/CRS and Superblower models and back to the CSX car.  Each of these genuine cars also had the most impeccable overall finish. However this was not the case with the MkVI which had very odd proportions which in my opinion was very unflattering and did not look anything like previous versions. I'm sure this styling is intentional but it did the car no favours. Also the car lacked the bodily finish one has come to expect from any previous AC built product. Again the car seen may be a pre-production car and this may improve. Surely this new car would be better sold with its own name rather hanging off the coat-tails of its genuine AC predecessors.

[nikbj68]

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68...John Owen was at the ACOC 60th Anniversay meeting with Alan Lubinsky & Jurgen Mohr,although I don`t think they ventured down the hill from the AC Heritage centre...

   My apologies, I do these chaps a disservice!
   Fancy a game of 'Where`s Wally?' Photo courtesy of Peter de Rousset-Hall(via Cobham!), I was obviously far too busy with Kevin Kivlochan to notice Alan Lubinsky, Jurgen Mohr & (possibly)John Owen looking around the ME`s.
   
   

[Chafford]

quote:Originally posted by Alan Faulkner-Stevens
    There were also two new superb 427 cars built by AC heritage.
   

   
   Are these AC Heritage cars genuine ACs - do they have the rights to use the AC badge?
   
   It seems very strange that there are effectively two AC companies - one in the UK and one in Germany!

[henryst]

Hmm, all these places where all these AC's have been made.
   
   No-one has yet mentioned the MEs made in the old Cooper works at Byfleet.
   
   Peter

[REV]

Yes, I agree, and no one has as yet even given a thought to what the MKVII may look like.
   
   Maybe Mr Lubinsky is just trying to create media attention and provoke discussion before launching the real deal!!!!!!!
   
   I found this photo in a secret location file that may just hint to future production.
   
   It certainly has a hint of retro style.......
   
   But a more modern twist and paint scheme have been added........
   
   The bonnet scoop and roll bar you may say are older features from previous models, but they do help to give the car a more modern look......
   
   Its smaller without the refined lines.......
   
   But much more frugal than previous cars.......
   
   Alledgedly even cheaper to run than a "Smart" car!
   
   Maybe production for this could be a winner!!!!
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   [8D]