CFX 37. Original colour pictures from January 1971

[Emmanueld]

Brett hi,
   
   Thanks, I hope my car turns out as nice as CFX37 above. The front left wing is taking forever as they have had problems shaping the lip. They tried 3 times to to it in one piece and it turned out to be impossible due it's shape. There are too many angles and when you shape one side the other goes.  So now they have done it in 2 pieces, the front and the rear which were welded in one piece. Then there is an inner lip which needs to be welded right in the middle of the wheel arch. The other side is already done as only 2 small patches were required and the inner part was in good shape. By the way, the 72 vette, nice car, still a steel bumper car, they were the best looking.
   
   Emmanuel [:)]

[nikbj68]

quote:Originally posted by lyonheart84...here in the UK with buyers asking if a car is 'matching numbers' even if they don't really understand what it means or which makes/models can actually have matching numbers...

   I saw an advert for an Ace Bristol "with matching numbers", but an 'AE' chassis number, which denotes AC, rather than Bristol engine. When I phoned them, they said "...it means it`s a correct engine for the car..."
   After a fairly lengthy conversation, in which I mentioned informing the Trading Standards Authority, they decided to re-word the advert![B)]
    Genuine ignorance, or trying to pull a fast one, I don`t know, but to be honest, I think the former! [}:)]

[lyonheart84]

LOL @ nikbj68 probably ignorance, I've found people thinking the same about American cars, that matching numbers means it's a correct type / size engine for the particular model, many don't realise that part of the engine number sequence actually matches part of the chassis number sequence. Whereas on something like a Jaguar / Triumph / MG matching numbers means the engine number matches the original Factory Records perhaps in the form of a Heritage Certificate or in the case of the Jaguar what is recorded on an original chassis plate.
   @ Emmanuel yes I also prefer the look of the 72 Corvette as the last year with chrome bumpers front and back, also in the UK cars manufactured before 1973 are currently exempt from paying annual vehicle road tax, not a huge saving but still a nice feeling.
   With reference to the front wing/fender lip manufacture I think you will be very interested to take a close look at the original factory wing/fender that I am sending Jeff, as you can clearly see ( as it is still in primer ) and has not been prepared for paint, the seams where the wing was assembled from several smaller sections which are welded together to make the complete unit.

[Classicus]

All news to me being hopeless about all things mechanical as usual [:I] For the Register anyone know what would be the "matching numbers" for the 428 ? Or Convertible and Fastback if they're different....

[lyonheart84]

@ Classicus if there is such a thing as matching numbers on a Frua, and it's been too long since I owned mine to remember the information given on the chassis plate, matching numbers means that a car still retains the ACTUAL ORIGINAL ENGINE block it left the factory with, i.e.  has not been damaged beyond repair or removed from the car and changed for some other reason. I don't rememember if the chassis plate on 428's also showed the engine number ( a current owner will be able to confirm or deny this ) and I seriously doubt if there are any existing factory records showing the engine numbers fitted into each car. If the Frua chassis plate shows the engine number as well as the chassis number it would be a simple matter to inspect the engine block for it's number and see if it 'matches' that shown on the chassis plate and therefore would be 'matching numbers' and therefore the original block the car left the factory with. Thankfully on a car as rare as the Frua in my opinion it would not make any difference to the value of the car if the engine had been changed either to another 'correct' Ford 428 cu.in or an 'upgrade' 427 cu.in or 460 cu.in. It might however devalue the car if the engine was changed to a smaller block Ford 302 cu.in or 351 cu.in or even to a Chevrolet or Chrysler engine as this would be a considerable deviation from original.

[Classicus]

Thanks indeed for the clear explanation, I'll leave things as they are.

[J Jones]

My chassis plate only indicates a 7 liter engine, and a casting date. It could be a 428 or a 427. As with "original" Cobra roadsters, it really does not matter - improvements are considered a good thing, as long as the basic in-period components are intact.
   Frua 428's were not fully developed, so it's my opinion that any non "chemical" (reversable) improvement is potentially a good thing.

[lyonheart84]

Emmanuel, as a postscript to your photographs above of CFX 37 and for the total anoraks among us ( !!! ),
   when the interior was retrimmed ( it looks a superb re-trim, any idea when that was done ? ), the switches on the central dashboard were re-installed upside down ! Fortunately probably none of the judges at Pebble Beach would have known this or it might have resulted in a dropped point lol !

[Emmanueld]

Brett, the 460 is a different engine, much larger in size and of low power. It would not fit in the Frua engine bay without major surgery. It is of the "385" family which include the 429 and boss 429. The "385" engine family replaced the FE family in 1971. My car has an engine number stamped on the chassis plate, but it does not correspond to anything, it's not a Ford number as well so I don't know maybe AC stamped their own number somewhere, it could be that some countries required it, so it explains why some cars have a number on the chassis plate and some don't. There  is no such a thing as a matching number Frua or Cobra for that matter since Ford did not have engine numbers at that time. However, they had engine date codes, which are well known to Ford collectors. However, AC I suspect used whatever engine they could find (possibly at the best possible price).  Jeffrey's car if I remember correctly has a 67 police interceptor block, (he will correct me if I have the wrong date) while his car is a 69. Mine is a 71 and the block was a service block which makes sense since the 428 was phased out in 1970. The engine I use now is a 67 Ford Fairlane 427 Side Oiler with a custom made steel crankshaft which has the same stroke as the 428 resulting in a 454 cubic inch capacity or 7.5 liters. The crank was machined with rod journals slightly smaller to accommodate Chevrolet big block rods which are longer  and give a better rod angle. I used Oliver Nascar steel rods which are probably overkill for my 550 hp.I bought the block from a drag racer who had it in reserve for 30 years. The 427 block has much bigger bores than the 428 and in side oiler form, has another oil gallery which goes directly from the oil pump to the main bearings giving priority oiling to the rotating assembly, it's also a high nickel block making it stronger.  In racing, in the early 60's the early Ford FE s engine, 390, 408 and 427 experienced rod bearing failures under extreme conditions and Ford developed the Side Oiler as a result and solved the problem. AC built a few early Fruas with 427 and then used 428 engines. I understand the 427 could be ordered with a premium. Another advantage of the late 427 blocks is that they also had oil passages to the litters to accommodate hydraulic litters for those who so desire, early ones were  solid lifters only. I wanted my car to be able to withstand spirited driving with a manual box for extended amounts of time. A little anecdote, the FE powered GT40 s that won Le Mans in the late sixties did so with completely stock 427 engines using a single Holley carburetor. Amazing!
   
   CFX37 was restored by a well known shop here in Orange County. I don't know who did the interior.
   
   Emmanuel [:)]

[lyonheart84]

Hi again Emmanuel, yes I did know the 460 was different, I was just generalizing about big blocks for the registrars benefit, I've also come across a number of the ( less desirable ) centre oiler 427's over the years. I knew your car had a 427 as I'd read all the previous correspondance. My father owned 3 genuine GT40's at the same time ( !!! ) in the late 1960's but they were road going versions with the 289 Engine, but quick enough for the road in those days. Your car will be quite some machine with that kind of power! I believe CFX37 was at Pebble Beach in the mid 1990's so must have been restored a long time ago. I would imagine AC bought a batch of blocks from Ford, but I seem to remember that engine supply difficulties interrupted Frua production as well as other problems. I'm fairly sure that only the prototype convertible CF1 had a 427 fitted but 1 or 2 others may have slipped out to customers with special influence or for road test / publicity purposes.

[J Jones]

You are correct, Emmanuel. Engine casting date and chassis plate agree: 1967. And it is a police interceptor reinforced Block with a "C" cast - same as the Shelby Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet Mustangs.
   follow this link, and scroll down to C7ME-A with a "C". The pictures are of my block.
   
   http://mustangtek.com/block/Block.html

[Emmanueld]

Brett, your right it was restored in the 90's but the current owner does not drive it and this is Southern California so it still looks brand new! Jeffrey loves his Police block, too bad he has got the taxi package camshaft to go with it! [:D][:D][:D][:D]
   
   Emmanuel

[lyonheart84]

hahaha Emmanuel that was cruel to make the taxi camshaft comment, but I think Jeff will be laughing! Every Frua was rated at 345 BHP and 462 lbs ft Torque by AC but I suspect they all varied if different specification 428 blocks were used as none of the cars were dynamometer tested when new !

[Emmanueld]

No, it's an old joke I have with Jeffrey because he had his engine apart with the crank assembly off to be re-balanced and he let Dennis the engine builder talk  him into doing nothing with the cam. We don't even know if the cam is original or if is a cheap aftermarket, it could be a pickup truck one made to give all the power and torque at low rpm.  It's ultra smooth but dies at 4 grands. To be fair, the car has plenty of power but a nice modern hydraulic cam would have awakened it. Specially with those nice aluminum heads and the Holley 735 carburetor. I had the same set up on my 428 engine with a Crower hydraulic cam and the car would pull al the way to 6 grands in a big hurry!
   
   Emmanuel [:)]

[J Jones]

Emmanuel gets endless pleasure teasing me for not putting in a new cam - and Dennis (the engine builder) did talk me out of changing the cam. His point was: I am not planning on racing the car, the engine runs well; so 'don't fix what ain't broke'.
   
   Also, he felt it was better to do things incrementally, as it is easier to get things right if there are fewer variables in each step.
   
   There's no reason to think the existing cam is not original. (Unfortunately, I did not look for the part number on the existing cam)  The engine has very little wear, but does show signs of having been opened before.
   
   We shall see. I expect it will be necessary to pull the engine when I put in Air Conditioning. When Emmanuels car is back on the road, we will be able to compare how they perform. Comparing them will be very helpful for me in deciding wether or not to change the cam.
   
   I know what Emmanuel thinks. He is frequently correct about these things.