Save the ACECA ACE engine or go Ford

[Cargirl]

A client contacted me yesterday for some advice on what to do with his 1958 ACECA Ace.  The matching Ace engine is in the shop but in deplorable condition. So he is faced with the following decisions: 

Stick with the Ace engine and make every effort to get it in good mechanical order again. 
Pro: It is the original engine. 
Con: They may very well find out after countless hours and expense that the engine can not be saved. 

Would it be better to buy another Ace engine?
Pro:  It would be the correct engine.
Con: What would an Ace engine cost? 

As opposed to the third option:

Would he replace the Ace engine with a Ford engine?
Pro:  An easier engine to find
Con:  Is he taking away even more of the car's value with the Ford engine.

And if he were to do a Ford conversion - which Ford engine would work best?

The body of the car is sound. What makes the most sense for the value of the car in this situation?  You have to factor in the expense of the first option - diving in to an engine that may not be able to be salvaged in order to start ticking off the options.  Is there a point where you just know it can't be saved and it is not worth pursuing?
How much would a replacement Ace engine cost and after factoring in purchasing, shipping and installing will it hold more value than the faster, less expensive option of the Ford engine?
I know as a broker what the value of the car is when all is said and done no matter what engine he choose but the question is which process is the best for him to take that makes sense money and time wise?

What say you ACOC forum?

[Robin A Woolmer]

Fitting a New AC Weller Engine is in my view the correct approach, but i would say that as i make them! but it does survive the the originality of the car albeit not the actual original engine, we are getting 140-150 BHP now & in fast road form has a very flat torque curve.
Several of my engine perform well in Historic Racing & shortly one will be fitted in a Racing Ace.
Values of Weller engine cars will in my view increase to that of the Bristol version, but in the end it is what the owner can justify spending, it would be a shame to fit a Ford 2.6 if it was not fitted originally, they are becoming difficult to find now, but they are good engines!
By the way the Weller engine design is 100 years old this year, but was very advanced for the period!   

Robin   

[Cargirl]

Robin what is the cost of a new AC Weller engine?

[Robin A Woolmer]

Hi
I do not want to use the Forum to advertise or promote my engines, so i would prefer if you sent me an Email & i will give you an approximation, i am in the book.
We made a new engine for a customer in Columbia for an Ace a few years ago & i understand it is working well. I initially made PVT engines but tooled up for the Post War block anyway.
I do not advertise & am a sole trader in UK, but those who use their AC engine cars are well aware, we have basically resolved the issues of liner sealing & quite a number of other weaknesses which dogged the Weller Engine, i did supply a short engine several years ago to one of your countryman which is fitted to an Aceca which he raced.
At least Owners have the assurance that their valuable investments can survive & be driven with confidence!

Robin   

[Cargirl]

Thanks Robin.  I have your e-mail so I will be in touch.  In the meantime the post is to discuss options for enthusiasts finding themselves in the same predicament.  So your post offering another option is very helpful.

[B.P.Bird]

Robin makes a very good case for preserving the original specification. Matching numbers cars will increasingly be sought for and increasingly difficult to find. There is no reason to suppose that this engine cannot be preserved even if with a new water jacket. The problem with all A.C.s and other small volume makes is finding the right specialist. However competent an engine overhaul facility might be ask yourself how many Weller sixes will they have restored ?
Barrie

[AEX146]

Like others on the Forum I think that your customer should try and save the AC engine. This is not only the value maximising strategy but will be the most rewarding thing to do, particularly if if he/ she gets involved in the process.

Also I was surprised by your comment "....may well find that after countless hours and expense that the engine cannot be saved". I think that with good preparation this risk can be minimised and I would recommend that, at least as a first call,  you make contact with Rod Briggs (www.ac-6.co.uk) who can provide estimates for the supply all the parts and undertake a water jacket replacement if that is needed.

Good luck with this project.
Ben Morgan

[Robin A Woolmer]

Water Jacket replacements whilst work reasonably well, they   significantly reduce the structural strength of the engine, it also requires extra machining as the blocks distort, so generally line boring of mains etc!
Costs can mount up.

[Robin A Woolmer]

Just a few points for those owners wishing to fit a different engine into the Ace or Aceca, significant chassis modifications are needed when changing to say a Bristol Engine Or a Ford 2.6Litre six cylinder, these modifications should be carried out by experienced people who actually know the cars, even so they may not have the detail parts drawings for the change parts!
Bristol engine are expensive & Ford if you can find a good one will still add considerable cost to the conversion, in the end it will compromise the originality of the cars  & its value!
Mr Weller designed a very good engine, it just did not get the development Bristol engine received, However we are well on our way to resolving that!!

Robin

[Cargirl]

Thank you for your comments and e-mails.  I will forward this link along with the private e-mails from members with suggestions to my client.  I agree that he should save the original engine but as noted it can be a potential money pit if it is not in the hands of someone familiar with it.  At least now he has a better understanding of what his options are.

[Norman]

I agree with Robin Woolmer, even though I have a 2.6 Ace, which is the version with a Ford engine! If you make the swap you will end up with something of a hybrid. Originality will always pay off in the long run, and although AC engines are expensive to restore, the fact that you have the original block is very important. Also, bear in mind that it isn't just a matter of swapping engines: Ford-engined cars had a differently styled front, and an extra leaf in the front spring as the block is heavier. The exhaust runs on the opposite side and there may also be gearbox implications as well, though I'm not well versed on that.

Swallow hard and get the engine rebuilt. In the UK there are a couple of specialists around who can be trusted to do a good job.

[Cargirl]

Joop Stoltz has an AC Ace engine for sale.  I sent the link to my client. iI they decide the other engine can't be saved this will give them an option to keep a correct engine in the car.  Now they are armed with all of the possible options. 

[bex316]

That would be Joop Stolze from De Lier, Netherlands? I visited him many times in the past, mostly when my now deceased friend decided to purchase an MGA Twin-Cam there which still needed some restoration work done. I had a similar car that time. Joop operates from greenhouses of which there are many in that area and has a big slowly changing collection of cars in various conditions.
I could have a look at that engine if preferred.

Jerry

[Robin A Woolmer]

In terms of engines, the ultimate option is to fit a new Weller engine & get the best of both worlds!

Robin

[Cargirl]

Thank you Jerry.  Now the client has all of his options clearly laid out:  Fix the engine he has.  Use a Ford engine.  Use a Weller engine and finally replace with another Ace engine.  Will keep the forum posted although he does move like molasses. They have had the car apart for about ten years.