CSX2186/COX6002

[cobrabob]

Hello everyone across the pond. I'm new to this forum, but I've owned CSX2186 since 1980. One of the first things I learned about the car is that it started life as COX6002--all the usual serial number spots are numbered 6002 rather than 186, and the frame has COX6002 overstamped with CSX2186. We have since learned that the COX6002 in France, which has been rebodied as a Daytona coupe, was probably originally mumbered CSX2186. My questions are two-fold: does anyone have any knowledge as to why the two cars were switched, and does anyone know which car actually appeared at the '63 Paris Auto Show? The only visible difference in the cars was interior color--my car has a black interior and the other car had a red interior. My car (the present CSX2186) has a positive ground (earth) which is manifested in the clock and Smiths electric tachometer. and doesn't show any evidence of an AC badge on the boot lid.
   If anyone has any knowledge that would help clear up this mystery, it would be greatly appreciated.
   Thanks!

[TLegate]

Hi Bob
   
   I very much doubt that any further light can be shed on this issue - I guess the entries in the last SAAC World Registry cover the matter pretty well. If it makes you feel better, yours is not the only car to suffer from this 'problem'. CSX2354 was pulled off the so-called production line, turned into COX6012 and sent to the 1964 Geneva Motor Show, still with 2354 stampings on the hood latch and elsewhere, and an mixture of parts for both the American and european markets. Another chassis became 2354 and was sent to SAI in the usual way. Both cars still exist, in Germany and New York, but by a weird twist of fate are (were) both owned by people with the name 'Otto'. All helps to confuse!! I suspect AC simply altered a cars ID to meet the most urgent demand at the time, either from SAI or a dealer in Europe.
   Back in the period, nobody at AC was too bothered about chassis numbers or what was stamped where - they would be very amused by the manner in which people get over-excited by such matters today....but obviously in your case its nice to know as much as possible.

[cobrabob]

Thanks, Trevor for your reply. I'm sure you're correct--so much time has passed, and it probably was such a minor event at the time, that no one remembers.
   I was not aware of a similar scenario with 2354/6012. I don't recall seeing that mentioned in the 1997 Registry. However, when I had Nisonger's make me up a positive earth Smiths tach they stated they used to make them up on occasion for SAI, perhaps for the same reason--Euro electrics in an American car. Regards.

[TLegate]

The information regarding 6012 was not in the last registry since the then owner did not tell SAAC. I was only made aware of this when the owner drove from Germany to the UK a few years ago and showed me the car.

[Emmanueld]

I have heard of a scheme where people will make 2 cars out of one by splitting components such as door latches, hood latches etc. They then send the duplicate to another country and no one knows. Both cars have enough "Cobra" items to look genuine. Here in California where the DMV keeps track of CSX numbers (with great attention for tax purpose), there have been a few incidences where people tried to register a newly acquired car from Europe with a CSX number already attributed to another car in California. I am very skeptical about AC changing number on a car maybe it might have happened once by mistake but I doubt it. These cars are now very valuable and fraud will occur, this is why it is important to check with SAAC before buying.
   I have mentioned it before, but I know of a supicious one. A car which I first saw in the early 2000. I almost bought it but I had it appraised by a big Cobra guy and SAAK member he in LA. He told me to stay away because althought the numbers are genuine, the body shape is all wrong, especially around the windshield and the doors. The pedals were not genuine AC but Kit Car pedals. According to the registry, this car went to Germany in the early 80's only to reappear in the early 2000. The price was great but I stayed away. Maybe there is another car with the same number somewhere else in the world or maybe this car was crashed and repaired in Germany using photos, which would explain it's shape not being right. The car reappeared last year again for sale still well priced and once again I was tempted.
   
   Emmanuel

[cobrabob]

I've heard of that too, in fact someone tried to do it with my car when they found out it had two numbers. The "dealer" I bouhgt the car from schemed with a friend to try to title and register COX6002 in Tennessee based on some junk body parts they had, none of which contained a serial number. Tennessee was very liberal with titles in those days--you simply provided an affadavit that you had the car and they issued you a title. These two worthies then secured a bank loan with the "car" as collateral. When they defaulted on the loan and the bank tried to get their collateral, things hit the fan, so to speak, and the FBI was called in; bank fraud is a federal offense. I had already contacted Tennessee DMV and notified them of the fraud, so they rescinded the title.
   None of this fraud pertains to the originality of my car. I have the total title/registration history of CSX2186 from MSO to current title, as well as the obvious overstamp of the serial numbers. I agree with Trevor, it was probably expediency in Thames Ditton. Either the car didn't sell at the Paris Show because a customer wanted a red interior, or Chardonnet preferred a red interior for the show. AC records show the two cars were produced at almost identical times. And SAI records state that CSX2186 was delayed due to the Paris Show.

[jbottini]

Ac and AK took liberties with serial system, hence CS's claim of chassis he found and many other issues. What need s tp happen is to trace the vehicle state by state, country by counrty and you will know the truth, not anyones personal urban legends.I have seen AK's with interior trim panels withchaulked numbers on the inside of the panels that belonged on another car. production sequences moved as did build dates and etc

[Emmanueld]

quote:Originally posted by jbottini
   
Ac and AK took liberties with serial system, hence CS's claim of chassis he found and many other issues. What need s tp happen is to trace the vehicle state by state, country by counrty and you will know the truth, not anyones personal urban legends.I have seen AK's with interior trim panels withchaulked numbers on the inside of the panels that belonged on another car. production sequences moved as did build dates and etc
   

   
   These are not urban legends, there has been a lot of fraud with CSX cars and Shelby Mustangs, so much so that one should stay away from a car that has not been documented fully with SAAC.
   
   Of course with AK cars it really does not matter since they are not worth big money and probably never will be. [:D]
   
   Emmanuel

[jbottini]

thanks for the input

[cobrabob]

Trevor, the new Registry is in our hands and I'm more confused than ever about COX6002. According to the introdu2186ction to the COB/COX section, 6002 was built at the end of August, 1963, while 6001 was built the end of September of that year. Why would AC have built the second in the series before the first?
   Also, in your most recent Cobra book, you note that AC issued a credit memo to SAI for 2186, but they did fill the order, apparently with the re-numbered 6002. So why issue a credit memo?