Ace Overriders

[B.P.Bird]

Across the finishing line. The last overriders should now have reached the launch customers and I hope they are all as pleased with the product as the Overrider Team are: It has taken a while to get everything organised, but actually this project has been pretty quick compared with many a saga to reproduce old parts.
Any owners of early Ace or Aceca who missed the opportunity to be a launch customer can still obtain overriders from the A.C.O.C. However the stock is very small. Keith Lessiter is now sending out overrider mounting brackets which are correct for the early cars, see his advertisement in ACtion for contact details.
I hope we see some photographs of early cars looking good with their original overriders.
It just remains to thank all those who made this possible, I shall not list the names for fear of omitting someone, but just note that there were many Members from California to New Zealand who put a great deal of effort in to make this happen.
The question has been asked, "Where next." Well we are thinking about it and if something can be done about other difficult to find items maybe another project will launch.....
Barrie

[B.P.Bird]

              Early Overriders Project - Epilogue

   Having just attached the early overriders to AE22 I thought I should pass on a couple of amendments to the fasteners previously listed and give some suggestions about fitting.
As '22 had lost all the overriders and mounting brackets I have had to start with a clean sheet. The effort has been more than worthwhile. Well done A.C.O.C.








As previously noted by various recipients the early type replica overriders are very nicely made and are spot on in shape and size. For mounting brackets I ordered two rear and two front from Keith Lessiter. They fitted well after a little easing of mounting holes with a round file. As Keith suggests the brackets are self finished so a little bit of fettling, with a file and some emery cloth, before painting, is best.




There is a question of what colour the brackets should be painted and I believe they were mostly painted with the same black paint used on the chassis. However there are examples of brackets painted to match the coachwork. Possibly, like almost everything else at Thames Ditton, it could have been customer choice. As you see above I decided on the matching route for '22. The picture shews the other fasteners required on the rear and reading from left to right we have: The overrider with 5/16" UNF captive nuts fitted, two plain 5/16" washers, two 5/16" UNF hex head screws, two 5/16" BSF Aerotight nuts, two plain 5/16"washers, the rear mounting bracket, one short and one long distance tube, two 5/16" BSF hex head bolts - one 2 3/4" underhead and one 2 1/4" underhead.

The original overrider was fitted with 5/16" UNF captive nuts which made fitting to the brackets really simple and quick. I have tried to find out what nuts were fitted to the square holes in the mounting plates: It seems they were a 'cage nut' which is a square nut enclosed in a loosely fitting square cage which has a spring clip on two sides. This is pushed in to the square hole til the spring clips come through the hole and open out to retain the cage and the nut in place. These are still made and are not expensive. However they are designed to clip into thin sheet metal and will not grip the thicker mounting plates of the overriders. It is simply a matter of finding the clips, designed for thicker metal, which I failed to do: More research required. Fortunately there is an alternative form which has 'wings' on two sides instead of clips and these are easily pop riveted in place.

No great accuracy is required as the nuts are a floppy fit in the cage and allow for a good deal of movement. This is ideal for final alignment of the overrider.





As the picture shews I did spot face the pop rivet holes so that the bracket would mount flush to the overrider plates, but a simple countersink would do as well

The rear fitment is a little more of a fiddle than the front as there are distance tubes involved and the bracket mounting holes are almost in line which means that there is not much space between the heads of the bracket to overrider screws and the nuts for the bracket to chassis bolts. The distance tubes fit with the short one uppermost. Looking at the distance tube arrangement it will appear that the tubes should be chamfered to match the angle of the chassis mounting plate which slopes so that the top is further aft than the bottom. However, having discussed this with David Sanderson, it seems that Thames Ditton left the ends of the distance tubes simply parted off. This means that the distance tubes slope slightly down as they exit through the bodywork. It looks instinctively wrong, but as the bolts are tightened it all comes in to alignment and of course the original holes in the body must have been cut with this in mind. 
One useful suggestion I found was to leave all the fasteners loose til everything was in place and aligned. Then tighten the two nuts and bolts and two screws, on each overrider, in step, a little at a time, checking the alignment as you proceed.
As always a picture is worth a great deal more than my droning on:



Note how close the Aerotight BSF nuts are to the UNF screw heads

Once you have mounted the rear overriders you will find the fronts much more straightforward: There are no distance tubes to fit and the bracket to chassis holes do not line up with the bracket to overrider holes, so that getting the Aerotight nuts in place is much easier.


Here is the revised list of the fasteners you will require to do a complete Ace, a little changed from the original list:

8 off 5/16" UNF screws 3/4" underhead Hex head (overrider to bracket)
4 off 5/16" BSF bolts 1 1/4" underhead with 3/4" thread Hex head (bracket to chassis front)
2 off 5/16" BSF bolts 2 3/4" underhead with 1" thread Hex head (bracket to chassis rear)
2 off 5/16" BSF bolts 2 1/4" underhead with 1" thread Hex head (bracket to chassis rear)
8 off 5/16"  BSF Aerotight nuts
16 off 5/16" Plain washers
8 off 5/16" UNF cage nuts and cages

Stainless Fastener Sources: Mike Peters at Surplus Supplies www.polished-stainless.com 01636 636735 surplusmpeters@aol.com
                                         Westfield Fasteners www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk 01844 201133 enquiries@westfieldfasteners.co.uk.

For the cage nuts go to Revington TR www.revingtontr.com 01823 698437 info@revingtontr.com
The part numbers for the cage nuts are: Nut RTR5136 and Cage RTR5135.
Being specials for TR 2/3 floor panels these last are unfortunately expensive compared to the other fasteners, but they do make a good job of mounting the overriders.
         
                              Barrie Bird

[AEX 31]

Barrie,

Thanks for posting and may I say that 22 looks very nice indeed. An overrider question that I have been wondering about for years is if my car AEX 31 ever had any overriders fitted from new,since when restoring the car, no real traces was found.

Now 67 years after the car made its way to Sweden I was fortunate enough to get ahold of some images from the first owners son, now himself in his mid 70's.

The images clearly shows that there weren't any overriders fitted the first summer of 31's life. One of  the images shows the car with Swedish import plates, something that it only would have had for the first week or so.

Interesting no?

Jonas

[B.P.Bird]

J,
Very interesting. Just goes to shew what variations exist on these early Aces. I cannot think of any reason why A.C. would have left the overriders off or any reason why the first owner would have either ordered the Ace without overriders or removed them after delivery. The most common reason for not having overriders was competition - why carry the unproductive weight ? Is there any evidence from the first owner's son that the car was raced or rallied, or that was the intention when '31 was ordered ? Your photographs do seem to shew a mounting bolt at the front, but no evidence of the mounting holes for the distance tubes at the rear. Of course there should have been mountings of some sort, regardless of the overrider question, as both the front and rear mountings also tie the body to the chassis.
Something new every day in the world of old A.C.s.....
B

[AEX 31]

Barrie,

Yes the early cars do seem to have a number of idiosyncrasies. I don't think 31 ever had  any front overriders, merely that bolts where fitted on the front, just like you pointed out.

One of the images must be from the first couple of weeks of the cars existence here in Sweden.

As far as I have been able to find out 31 never did any racing. I spoke to the sun today and he had no memory at all of any racing. Interestingly enough AE 25, that did have overriders both from and rear, was raced for a number of years in both Sweden and Denmark!

Jonas

[Simondgb]

Speaking of overriders. I own BEX389.  I am looking for a set of 4 overider brackets as mine appear too far out. Can anyone help?

Best Regards,

Simon DGB

[AC Ace Bristol]

Simon.
The over rider brackets you have at present are to secure the over rider and accommodate twin tube bumpers.

Fire me an email and I can supply you with set of four new correct over rider brackets, just need fine fettling prior to painting.
Reference regular advert in ACtion Magazine.

Keith
Keith.lessiter at gmail dot com

[SpqrEddie]

Speaking of overriders. I own BEX389.  I am looking for a set of 4 overider brackets as mine appear too far out. Can anyone help?

Best Regards,

Simon DGB

BEX389 Seems a very nice unrestored example!

[Simondgb]

Yes, it's a lovely car and my first Ac.  I could have bought one in 1990 for £14,000 but I was £13,950 short at the time.

[AE_71]

Barrie,

I have just obtained a set of over-riders for AE-71 which I bought last year.
Could you give me the dimensions, length and external diameter of the two mounting tubes please.

Thanks

Nigel