AC 428's elder Italian cousin: Maserati Minstral

[cmaddox3]

This week's Autoweek provided a nice three-quarter page profile of the AC 428 Frua's Italian cousin, the Maserati Mistral that I thought would be interesting to share:
   
   
   For those of you who'd prefer larger resolution's for printing in high quality, I provide the following links:
   http://home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/motorin/mistral/autoweek_profile_1200w.jpg <--- 1200 Pixel's wide [657k DL]
   http://home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/motorin/mistral/autoweek_profile_2400w.jpg <--- 2400 Pixel's wide [1.9m DL]
   
   Is it just me or are Ferrari prices NUTS?  I mean I realize it's a V-12 with 390hp, etc. but I'd take a Mistral any day of the week personally.  Of course, I'd prefer an AC of nearly any stripe too.  But that's just me.
   
   Cheers!
   
   --  Chuck

[runt]

Yep, astronomical money; consider the Daytona, BEAUTIFUL, but so is its 365 GTC sister, and SO much cheaper to buy now.
   
   Paul.[:)]

[Classicus]

Definitely cannot agree with this author's very simplistic statement below!! [:(!] And moribund and some of the rest!! He gets a big [B)] for that too ! [:D]
   
   Because Derek was nobody's fool. He must have known right from the very beginning about the similarities between the 428 and the Mistrale. After a lot of effort and having finally drawn a blank with UK body designers (one might have been "Coventry Bodies" ?), besides saving on huge new design costs perhaps he felt it might not be such a bad thing anyway ?
   
   Chuck, interesting item at the very bottom of the article - Investment Grade C. Any idea how it works ? [:)]
   
   

quote:As an aside, if you see something that looks like a huge Mistral that someone shoehorned a 428 Ford into, buy it. It's a very rare AC 428. In possibly one of the shiftiest moves of all time, Frua sold nearly the same design to the moribund AC of England. Honestly, did they think no one would notice? (Of course, the wisdom of selling a 7-liter, 7-mpg car in 1968 England, when gas was already $1 a gallon, probably explains their rarity.)
   
   Regardless of Frua's shameless double-dealing, everything about the Mistral says high-dollar Latin exotic. Yet the best Mistral coupe on the planet would be hard pressed to break $45,000, and SCM rates the best Spyders at only $81,000. The answer to the value question is under the hood. Enthusiasts prefer Italian exotics with twelve, rather than six cylinders. What is perfectly okay in an Aston is dismissed in a Maserati.

   http://www.sportscarmarket.com/affordable-classics/2005-December/1964-1970-maserati-mistral.html
   
   Affordable Classic: 1964-1970 Maserati Mistral
   
   "If you decide to restore a Mistral, forget the scuba gear and go find Alvin, the Titanic submersible. You will be that far under water."
   
   by Rob Sass
   
   The cold wind that gave its name to Maserati's 1964 Mistral spells the end of summer in the south of France. The model heralded an even colder and more inhospitable wind in the form of crippling taxes, fuel shortages, idiotic U.S. regulations, and the ignominy of ownership by Citroën that nearly spelled the end of Maserati itself.
   
   But in an almost Machiavellian revenge, the Maserati V6 (which should have been a V8 anyway) in the SM coupe contributed to Citroën's collapse and purchase by Peugeot when its cam-chain tensioners turned out to be as short-lived as an Italian government.
   
   
   Before this operatic final act, there was a prolific period of creativity by the storied Modenese company that saw the creation of the Mexico, Ghibli, Sebring, Indy, and Mistral. Excellent cars, they have been largely overlooked by collectorsâ€"with the exception of the Ghibli (which cynics view as a Ferrari for which you can't get spare parts).
   
   Frua's Mistral is smaller and more sporting than an Aston Martin DB4 or a Ferrari 250 GTE. It's a pretty, airy, and practical body with a rear hatchback that is much more graceful than coach-built efforts on the larger 5000 GT chassis. All the right details are present: a fastback roofline, hood scoop, side vents, Borrani wire wheels, and just the right amount of chrome trim from a marque with a storied name and a serious competition pedigree.
   
   As an aside, if you see something that looks like a huge Mistral that someone shoehorned a 428 Ford into, buy it. It's a very rare AC 428. In possibly one of the shiftiest moves of all time, Frua sold nearly the same design to the moribund AC of England. Honestly, did they think no one would notice? (Of course, the wisdom of selling a 7-liter, 7-mpg car in 1968 England, when gas was already $1 a gallon, probably explains their rarity.)
   
   Regardless of Frua's shameless double-dealing, everything about the Mistral says high-dollar Latin exotic. Yet the best Mistral coupe on the planet would be hard pressed to break $45,000, and SCM rates the best Spyders at only $81,000. The answer to the value question is under the hood. Enthusiasts prefer Italian exotics with twelve, rather than six cylinders. What is perfectly okay in an Aston is dismissed in a Maserati.
   
   Even the performance tends to be overlooked. This isn't your run-of-the-mill six, but a twin-plug, DOHC unit directly descended from the 300S competition car. The black crackle-finish cam covers with the Maserati name and Trident look spectacular. About the only real knock against the powerplant is the fact that it was topped out. It had been stroked to the point that it was no longer free-revving andâ€"perhaps an even greater sin for Italiansâ€"the exhaust note wouldn't turn heads in the piazza. In any event, the Mistral was the swan song for the big Maserati six.
   
   Perhaps as revenge for the AC 428 scam, the British got even. Think fuel injection, courtesy of Lucas, Prince of Darkness. It's true: Folks who couldn't make a generator last longer than the life of a fruit fly were dabbling with mechanical fuel injection. Perhaps they were smarting from WWII, when Germans piloting injected Daimler-Benz-powered Messerschmitts could elude British fighters through maneuvers that caused carbureted Rolls-Royce Merlins to quit.
   
   It's possible that Lucas petrol injection can be set up correctly by an experienced technician, but finding one in the U.S. is as likely as finding a competent alchemist. Mercifully, most Sebrings and Mistrals that I have seen have been converted to Webers. As I know neither an alchemist nor a competent Lucas PI guy, I would much prefer a carbureted car, even though the Maserati purists say a properly set-up injected car runs sweeter. If you're absolutely determined to have fuel injection, find a mechanic in Vancouver or Torontoâ€"Canada got fuel-injected Triumph TR5s, so there is some institutional memory and spare parts.
   
   If the outside of a Mistral looks the part, so does the inside, with no fewer than seven gorgeous Smiths or Jaeger gauges, delightfully indecipherable rocker and toggle switches, some chrome trim, and a passenger grab handle. Unlike the Mexico, Sebring, and Indy, the Mistral makes no pretense about being anything more than a two-seater.
   
   The short-wheelbase box-section chassis makes for a relatively light curb weight of about 2,800 lbs. With abundant torque and 240 hp from the 3.7-liter, and 250 hp from the 4.0-liter engine, contemporary road tests showed the Mistral to be very quick. Italian tests claimed 0-100 kph (0-62 mph) in 6.8 seconds. Even allowing for extraordinary abuse or national pride on the part of the testers, the Mistral compares favorably to the Lamborghini 400 GT and Ferrari 275 GTS and will show a clean pair of heels to a DB4 or DB5 for less than half the price.
   
   On the road, the Mistral's relatively small size and short wheelbase work in its favor. Nimble compared to other GTs of the era, it brakes and handles reasonably well, considering its pedestrian live axle and leaf-spring rear suspension. The ZF five-speed is pleasant enough, but Maserati also offered a three-speed automaticâ€"a guaranteed deal-breaker today.
   
   Like any other exotic, a Mistral can be frighteningly expensive to restoreâ€"without the Ferrari value light at the end of the tunnel. The box section chassis are prone to rust and vintage Maserati parts (when available) are ambitiously priced by a single source. Fragile items like trim and switchgear might as well be worn as jewelry. If you decide to restore a fright-pig Mistral, forget the scuba gear and go find Alvin, the Titanic submersible. You will be that far under water.
   
   That said, there are misguided enthusiasts out there who, just as every SCMer has done with other marques, have ignored this advice and spent two to three times the value of these cars in restoring them. Obviously, those are the ones to buy.
   
   Make sure your catch wears a set of Borrani knock- off wire wheels, or budget for the purchase of a set. More so than most cars, wire wheels really make the Mistral sing. Even the very pretty Spyder looks bland with alloys. Strangely, resale red is not the most complimentary color for a Mistral. Dark colors and light metallics like silver and ice blue emphasize their elegant lines.
   
   The market's lack of attention thus far can be attributed to the prevailing opinion that A-list Italian exotics must have a V12 (excepting the Dino 246). The Mistral's later stablemate, the Ghibli, also represents a glass ceiling. The Ghibli is undervalued, and since it boasts a V8 and an even prettier body designed during Giugiaro's stint with Ghia, you won't see a $50,000 Mistral as long as a Ghibli can be had for that sum. When the Ghibli takes off (and recent activity suggests it might), the Mistral will probably appreciate to the Ghibli's present level. Which is why I'm in the market for a Mistral now.
   
   Price Guide Values
   Year/Make/Model Low High
   
   64-70 Maserati Mistral coupe $35,000 $60,000
   64-69 Maserati Mistral Spider $75,000 $120,000
   
   Search Price Guide
   Year  Marque  Model
   
   Years Produced 1963-71
   Number Produced 948
   Original List Price $14,400
   SCM Valuation $25,000-$35,000 (coupe) (at time of print)
   Tune-up Cost $1,500
   Distributor Caps $1,050
   Chassis # Location Plate in engine compartment
   Engine # Location Stamped on front of cam cover and on side of block
   Club Info TMC, P.O. Box 5300, Somerset, NJ 08875-5300 USA
   Web Site http://themaseraticlub.com
   Alternatives 1966-72 Fiat Dino spider, 1968-69 Lamborghini Islero, 1967-72 Intermeccanica Italia
   Investment Grade C

[cmaddox3]

quote:Originally posted by Classicus
   
Definitely cannot agree with this author's very simplistic statement below!! [:(!] And moribund and some of the rest!! He gets a big [B)] for that too ! [:D]
   
   Because Derek was nobody's fool. He must have known right from the very beginning about the similarities between the 428 and the Mistrale. After a lot of effort and having finally drawn a blank with UK body designers (one might have been "Coventry Bodies" ?), besides saving on huge new design costs perhaps he felt it might not be such a bad thing anyway ?
   
   Chuck, interesting item at the very bottom of the article - Investment Grade C. Any idea how it works ? [:)]
   
   

quote:As an aside, if you see something that looks like a huge Mistral that someone shoehorned a 428 Ford into, buy it. It's a very rare AC 428. In possibly one of the shiftiest moves of all time, Frua sold nearly the same design to the moribund AC of England. Honestly, did they think no one would notice? (Of course, the wisdom of selling a 7-liter, 7-mpg car in 1968 England, when gas was already $1 a gallon, probably explains their rarity.)
   
   Regardless of Frua's shameless double-dealing, everything about the Mistral says high-dollar Latin exotic. Yet the best Mistral coupe on the planet would be hard pressed to break $45,000, and SCM rates the best Spyders at only $81,000. The answer to the value question is under the hood. Enthusiasts prefer Italian exotics with twelve, rather than six cylinders. What is perfectly okay in an Aston is dismissed in a Maserati.

   
   Hi Cass [as you've indicated elsewhere is an acceptable abbreviation],
   
   On the choice of "moribund" to describe A.C. ...  my Mac's built in Dictionary defines moribund as:
   
   

quote:Dictionary
   moribund |#712;môr#601;#716;b#601;nd; #712;mär-|
   adjective
   (of a person) at the point of death.
   • (of a thing) in terminal decline; lacking vitality or vigor : the moribund commercial property market.
   DERIVATIVES
   moribundity |#716;môr#601;#712;b#601;nd#601;t#275;; #716;mär-| noun
   ORIGIN early 18th cent.: from Latin moribundus, from mori 'to die.'
   
   Thesaurus
   moribund
   adjective
   1 the patient was moribund dying, expiring, terminal, on one's deathbed, near death, at death's door, not long for this world. antonym thriving, recovering.
   2 the moribund shipbuilding industry declining, in decline, waning, dying, stagnating, stagnant, crumbling, on its last legs. antonym flourishing.

   
   I suppose I could see where he was getting at, I mean how many 428's did AC produce?  81 or so?  And the ME3000 took a long time to begin production and I suspect it's production numbers were not much greater than the 428's.  So, it's not entirely inaccurate.  I would have tried to be more tactful though.
   
   An aside...  There is currently a ME3000 press release up on ebay...
   
   
   
   
   Which gives an idea of the trials and tribulations of not only getting the ME3000 to market, but also much of it's design philosophy.
   
   On the topic of fuel mileage and fuel costs in 1968...  I visited the UK with my parents in March-April of 1973 and I remember that fuel cost 35p per UK gallon at the time.  At the time the US Dollar was in flux [floating] and the Pound was worth between $2.50 and $2.60 and the Brits were still on English measurements [in fact VAT was implemented in the UK the second day we were there... http://www.chrishobbs.com/1973.htm ] so with a little knowledge of math, one could figure out what the US equivalent in Dollars per US gallon for that date.  As for fuel consumption, while I know that the 428 isn't a fuel miser, given that one can drive the 428 with a minimum of throttle and still pace or outpace most other traffic, one could practice economic driving practices and get respectable fuel economy.  In fact several of the articles I've read on the 428 claim 18-20mpg at 70mph [which is far better than many SUV's can manage today with far smaller engines].  As for the rarity...  as most of the motoring magazines of the time indicated the 428 wasn't priced at an especially competitive price point.  Not that AC could have matched the production schedule of Coventry or General Motors.  But it was priced below what the Mistral was by a good chunk.  And maintenance costs?
   
   Mistral:
   Tune-up Cost $1,500
   Distributor Caps $1,050
   
   $1500!!! for a tune-up???  You could probably source a 428 Short block for not too much more than that.  Over a grand for a Distributor cap?  Gah!
   
   As for "Frua sold nearly the same design to the moribund AC of England. Honestly, did they think no one would notice?"  WTF!?!?  The same fellow designed both, they were designed within a few scant years of one another, what did he expect?  Perhaps for it to look like the Lunar Rover?  The Datsun 240z has a similar look too, did the Japanese copy the Minstral? or the Jensen Interceptor?
   
   I have little idea what Investment Grade C would mean other than if "A" is the best [probably reserved for Ferrari's and similarly performing classics] then the Minstral probably has much less upside.
   
   Still an interesting article even though I pretty much figured where things were going by the time I read the author's last name...
   
   =)
   
   Chuck

[Classicus]

Interesting article as you say, though re. moribund the factory had fortunately had a very lucrative long term contract with the old Ministry of Health, at least for perhaps 2/3 more years after 1970/1, churning out three wheeler invalid cars which together with routine maintenance and servicing of customer's cars including pre-war, undoubtedly helped to keep things comfortably ticking over financially in the meantime. So not such a moribund picture after all [:)]
   
   A pic of the factory floor showing the Service Department's "work in hand", with the invalid cars lined up in the foreground in 1970/71. Note "the convertible of the aborted flat-six project" too. I've never been able to find anything out about this.
   
   

[cmaddox3]

I'm sure the automotive writer didn't take into consideration AC's main line business at the time.
   
   An interesting coupe on the lift at 11 o'clock in that photo.
   
   Chuck

[Classicus]

Yes probably, plus I forgot to mention that they were I think still making and servicing Cobras too as you can just make out one or two. I think the coupe is a Greyhound but there are far better experts on here than me ! [:)] Can you identify any of the other cars ?
   
   Having a real old struggle with the scans of the brochure as it keeps running out of memory, on top of which Virgin (my ISP) has been mostly out of action since yesterday morning ! Anyway hopefully using 300 dpi with 8 bit Colour palette (whatever that is !) and putting it all into gif will come up with something, but can't tell how distinct the text will be till I post in an hour or two. [:)]

[runt]

quote:Originally posted by Classicus
   
Yes probably, plus I forgot to mention that they were I think still making and servicing Cobras too as you can just make out one or two. I think the coupe is a Greyhound
   
   Cass, I think that coupe is an Aceca..? Looking at rear three quarter glass tho'it isn't clear..? When I was about eleven (in '66) there was a gent who parked one in the street regularly near home; us kids used to stand and watch in reverance.. SUCH a pretty car.
   
   Paul.[:)]
   

[Classicus]

You could be right Paul because looking at the second car from the right at three o'clock next to the Cobra, that's probably a Greyhound I think.... ? With the small boot lid.
   
   And I'd love to try a Buckland one day too, holiday memories of slowly drifting sideways into the ditch on isolated steep cambered country roads, Dad's teeth gritted, knuckles white, almost on full opposite lock.... They were the days.... cows in the middle of crossroads, the insignificant peep of the horn making no impression.... Farmers wondering why you bothered. Local policemen smirking.... and mother oblivious to it all.

[administrator]

The caption about the 'Flat Six' prototype started one of the biggest red herrings in AC history.  It was designed for and always fitted with a Ford V8 - the engine bay was far too narrow for the flat six, unless (as a previous owner commented) it was installed vertically and tractor tyres fitted for ground clearance.  The chassis number was MA200.  The car was sold a year or two ago by Colin Dunn, I believe on a commission basis.  It was the subject of a photo article in ACtion at the time.  Join the club and you will find out these things!

[Classicus]

quote:Join the club and you will find out these things.

   Thanks a lot for the "Flat 6" info Mr. Admin, very interesting ! [8D] I have thought of joining obviously but do you know first if the Club has an up to date list of how many 428's in fact currently survive as of today ? Or is this always going to be the big impossible now that they're all spread so far and wide ?
   
   Thanks again [:)]

[administrator]

The 428 Registrar, Andy Shepherd, maintains the register and updates it periodically.  All the club registers were totally revised for the 2002 'Millennium' Register publication, when the works gave 'limited and privileged' access to the factory records to the ACOC.  All the build details, chassis numbers, engine numbers etc for the cars are known to the club from the time the Hurlocks took over (1930) to shortly before the register was published.  The registers are posted on the Members' Section of this website.  Andy is one of the registrars who (I hope!) will be doing an update soon as the 2002 version is the latest one available.  Inevitably some cars disappear for a while, but most are known to the club.
   
   The Flat 6 ran successfully in prototype form on the bench and in a Greyhound with a special front suspension to clear the very wide engine, but was killed when the Ford V8 became available offering more power at a fraction of the cost.  An article appeared in ACtion recently, but most of the records were destroyed in a fire in the Thames Ditton drawing office.

[Emmanueld]

quote:Originally posted by runt
   
Yep, astronomical money; consider the Daytona, BEAUTIFUL, but so is its 365 GTC sister, and SO much cheaper to buy now.
   
   Paul.[:)]
   

   
   Paul, I am sure you are referring to the 365GTC/4 (commonly called the C4) not to the very rare and expensive 365GTC of the late 60's.
   
   Big difference!
   
   Emmanuel

[runt]

You're right Emmanuel, I am, the Daytona's 'little sister'..!
   Although I am not THAT much of a Ferrari person, there are a few which set the juices flowing, Daytona of course, C4 as said, 250 GTO, 250GT SWB, 275 GTB, 400 Superamerica, 500 Superfast,330 P4, actually C4 is the only one I could afford; but I'd rather keep saving for a 428!
   
   Paul.[:)]

[Emmanueld]

Paul Hi,
   
   I had a Daytona, I kept it for a couple of years, it was a gorgeous car, I sold it in 2004, I kind of regret it since I just I saw it advertised for sale at Autosportdesign in New York for double what I sold it for! The problem with the Daytona is that it drives like a truck in traffic and parts are rare and very expensive. But second and third gear with the pedal to the metal are amazing! the sound and the feel make you think you are racing at Le Mans, no other car gives you the same feeling. With the 428 you can play with the drive train as much as you want and not break the bank and you know what, the way my car is set up, it is way faster that the Daytona ever was! (Probably not top speed but where could you try it these days anyway!).
   
   Emmanuel