3 questions

[Exowner]

3 questions
   1/ Is it possible to make posting photos on our wonderful forum as easy as it is to attach a photo to an email? if not, why not?
   2/Is the ACOC forum open to non-members, if so, why? After all, it is the AC owner's club forum.
   3/ Why is the club in the process of wasting money on producing a Brexit register? All the registers are on the club website. Seems to be a complete waste of the club's money and, for those that give there time so willingly,a waste of it!

[AC Ace Bristol]

.
   
   Glen
   
   I've been on the Council for at least twelve years and have missed a few meetings, like last month,  Obviously missed something whilst on holiday.... ... What is this Brexit Register..[?]..[?]
   
   Most members would appreciate a easier system of posting pictures, I will bring it up at the next Council meeting for discussion, in the meantime maybe you can write in to the Council and  publish a letter in the next issue of ACtion.
   
   The AC Owners Club is open to owners and enthusiasts of all AC models, with many owners not being affiliated to the ACOC, but have access and contribute to the general Forum, However they  cannot gain entry to the Members section.
   
   Non Members and AC Enthusiasts alike  contribute to the Forum to the benefit of all,  Why do You  feel they should be excluded .[?]..[?]
   
   Keith
   .
   .

[SBB]

A fourth question;
   Which other clubs' websites can be posted on by non members or is the ACOC alone in providing such access?

[AC Ace Bristol]

.
   .
   Glen.
   
   Having read and reread past Council minutes, I come to the conclusion that your referral to A Brexit Register in fact refers to producing  a up to date issue of the ACOC Membership listing.
   
   In the past many members didn't register to have their details included in the 2013 membership listing, then complained of their omission.
   It was therefore suggested that all members details be included unless instructed otherwise.
   
   Keith

[Jam2]

BE1058. Q. 4th  The Bentley Drivers Club forum

[Exowner]

Keith, lifted straight from the Sept 2016 Action ACOC Council meeting review (page 10) –
   REGISTERS: The editor is compiling the data for a new bound copy of all ACOC registers. It was suggested that they be called 'The Brexit Registers'
   
   As for your question re non-member website access: 'why do you think they should be excluded'
   If the forum is on the ACOC website, then I assume it is funded, managed and moderated by the ACOC. To allow non-members access seems strange. If someone is passionate enough about matters AC, I would have thought the first step would be to join the ACOC, then proceed to airing one's views in Action and on the forum. I would be interested to know if issues brought up on the forum by non-members influence the actions of our guiding hands?
   I have been told many times that the forum is not the recommended way to propose things, that is what Action is for, and the forum is to ask technical questions etc. exactly what 'etc' consists of is confusing. Maybe it would be wise to enlighten members exactly what the forum is and isn't to be used for.

[TTM]

From a purely technical point of view, implementing a public access and a member-only access to the "forum" should be rather simple.
   
   We currently have a main forum labeled "AC Owners Club Forum" comprising 11 sub forums :
   1/ ACOC News and Events
   2/ General Forum
   3/ AC Weller Engine
   4/ Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum
   5/ Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum
   6/ Cobra (Thames Ditton) Forum
   7/ 428 Frua Forum
   8/ 3000ME Forum
   9/ Mk IV, Superblower & CRS Forum
   10/ Ace 'Brooklands' Forum
   11/ Recent ACs
   
   At this point all of this can be accessed publically, which in my opinion as a (fresh) member of the ACOC is really far from ideal.
   
   What I would suggest would be to add another main forum. We would then find oursleves with a main forum open to the public, and another main forum being restricted to paid-up ACOC members.
   What either of those two main areas may contain should of course be discussed, but I strongly suggest, for example, that any outing should be restricted to the members-only area.
   
   Here is an example of what it could all look like :
   
   1/ AC Owners club Forum (Public area)
   General AC news
   AC-unrelated car news
   Cars for sale
   etc
   
   2/ AC Owners club Forum (Members area)
   General forum
   The Workshop
   ACOC Events
   Members' for sale ads
   ACOC Partners, discounts, etc
   etc
   
   Having a functional breakdown structure of the forum would I think be more interesting and enlightening than having just a breakdown between cars where owners may not always read about other models, etc.
   
   Food for thought.

[MkIV Lux]

As already mentioned earlier by me to Committee members, I am an advocate for a Members' only forum. I can however understand that our Forum should also be a means to communicate (two ways) with non-members. Hence a solution of a Forum composed of 2 sections could be a good idea:
   
   1.   ACOC Members Forum: hence restricted to paid-up members of the ACOC, with
        o   a structure (model based) as is currently in place
        o   this Forum would then be part of the Members' area
   
   2.   ACOC Public Forum, with subs like:
        o   General AC news
        o   All matters AC cars related
        o   Technical questions
   
   There should also be more transparency as to the Forum users' identity.
        •   Under 1 above (ACOC Members' Forum), users should be identifiable by their real name such as to avoid the need to look up the identity in the Members' list. Here you then know to whom you "talk" and you can express yourself accordingly.
        •   In the Public Forum, users' identity could still be "hidden" by means of a pseudonym.
   
   Direct upload of photos is a prerequisite to make our Forum more attractive and more active (as opposed to uploading on a host platform, on which you need to have an account and that you need to manage, and creating links to get your photo onto the ACOC Forum. Depending on the options you have chosen to host the photos on the third-party host platform – like Photobucket, photos may disappear from the ACOC Forum after a while).
   This however technically may require more hosting capacity and may eventually be more costly.
   
   I would love to see more photos shared in the ACOC Members Forum, however I can understand that members may refrain (me included) from uploading photos on the current Forum, precisely because it is public! This issue would also be solved by a Forum with the 2 sections as described above.
   A subject worth to be given further consideration.
   
   Constant
   ACOC member since 2002

[Jam2]

Having the forum open to non members does not cost the club anything.  If you close the forum to non members , those non members are unlikely to join the club and you will deprive members of the knowledge of those people.
   Yes I have an interest in AC's. It was in a past life, (12/40 sports, 16/70 special, 16/80 comp, Cobra), but I don't now want to be a member of yet another club, receive unwanted post etc and pay for it.
   I fail to understand what the problem is.

[TTM]

MkIV Lux makes a very good point about the privacy. I personally would never post my name or pictures of my Ace on a public www area.
   
   Regarding posting pictures I would however suggest to keep the technical discussions in a private area as there may be members who may wish to post pictures when discussing technical aspects they may want to share about with other members only. I would find objectionable that professionals who are not members may learn for free solutions/tips/tricks that non-professional members may have found by working themselves on their cars, but would be happy to share with disinterested members.
   For instance, on many other "car forums", known professionals are required to pay "sponsoring" fees if they want to promote their activity and/or have access to all areas.
   
   Just my tuppence worth anyway.

[Jam2]

On the VSCC and BDC forums,  there are many professionals who give their knowledge and advice freely,

[Old Crock]

....mmm. interesting thread.
   
   Well, In for a penny, in for a pound. I go along with Jam2. My interest is pre-war cars in general. I have belonged to many clubs over the years (currently four). So, clearly I'm not into Cobras (sorry about that!) and withdrew from the ACOC as ACtion seemed to be full of Cobras, and pages about racing, yet so little information on, for example, '20's cars - just take a look at the spares available from the Club and you'll see, for vintage Sixes, it's down to one item. Also, check how many vintage AC owners are members and it's extremely unlikely to exceed fifteen. This is reflected in the lack of early cars at club events.
   
   I'm an elected member of the Institute of the Motor Industry so others consider me a 'professional'.  I find the comment from TTM odd and, contrary to his view, have many 'amateurs' approach me for technical advice, historic information, personal library documents, specialist tools, taking up a lot of time and wanting all for free (and often without even the courtesy of a 'thank you'). I do not mind if it keeps historic vehicles on the road, but think TTM's view is one-sided.
   
   Also TTM, why should any ACOC outing be restricted to only a members' forum. Surely the marque should be promoted, and the public be welcomed to view any gathering of AC cars? Remember the highly successful National Day at Thames Ditton a few years back?
   
   As for other clubs that have open forums, where non-members can post, there's the Riley Motor Club, Austin Seven friends, Aston Martin Owners Club, the Lagonda forum (do I list more?)
   
   Finally, the vintage forum has been used by both owners and enthusiasts and has become an information and historical archive in itself. Change that and any future owner suffers.

[nikbj68]

Well, this is all jolly depressing, isn't it? [xx(]
   ACtion is of course, 'the official organ' of the ACOC, but the forum is 'useful'.
   It's instant, it isn't restricted by page size (so dozens of photos can accompany a roadtrip report, for example) and it can be accessed from anywhere.
   So, we want to keep all of our technical knowledge within the Club?(heaven forbid the Oiks pick up a useful hint or 2!) [|)]
   If you want to share something with the poster of a particular question in the open forum. and no-one else, send them a Personal Message.
   There have been a number of professionals who have offered much useful information, advice and know-how with no hint of 'peddling their wares'.
   OR:
   A.N. Member posts a cry for help on the 'closed' forum for how to unseize his grottle sprocket, but according to Simon B-B, no 'real' members read the forum, and 3 months later A.N has to pay mirrions to Brizzle Fixers for a job A.Non Member has been doing for years, and would have told him, with pictures, if he'd known.
   
   Of course there should be Members Only content. There already is,(although not in the forum, it's via the Homepage) where the Model Registries, technical articles, Members' lists & Membership benefit discounts can be found (where did the regalia page go?)
   
   Hosting photos within the forum would cost more, so why would the Club pay extra when no members use the forum anyway? [;)]
   (I have hosted and posted hundreds of photos for dozens of members and non-members, and I'm happy to continue to do so for anyone who wants to paint a thousand words).
   
   Re-jigging the existing Forum categories now would be chaos.
   Example: the Cobra and 428 models shared a forum until '11, when the Thames Ditton section was born, consequently pre-2011 Cobra posts are in the 428 forum.
   
   My entire life has had ACs running through it, so if you cut a slice through my soul, it would look a bit like this:
   
   
   BUT. I'm not a Club member. Dad is the member, and the AC owner, but he doesn't use the forum.
   I'm the first Registered User on this forum (except for admin) and the most prolific poster by some margin, and I have literally 'seen it all' on here, and I firmly believe that keeping the Forum largely public is good for the individual Users, Club members and ultimately the Club itself.
   We're here to celebrate the cars, the people who use, rescue, restore and enjoy AC's, share information, and maybe be entertained or amused along the way, and suggesting that non-ACOC members are unwelcome, have nothing of value to add and are here purely for their own selfish ends is offensive.
   Nik Bagshaw. (Not hiding behind my username).

[MkIV Lux]

Hi Nick,
   
   Thanks for sharing your views on this interesting topic. You are definitely one of the top users of our Forum and know how it is used.
   
   Regarding my point on "direct upload" as opposed to upload via a "host platform" I just made a little test to upload the photo below:
   
   To upload this photo below, from when I create this post, it took 12 steps.
   
   Prerequisite: I had previously installed an account at Photobucket. This is free of charge up to a certain capacity. After that limit, I have to pay for hosting the pics.
   Of these 12 steps, once I am logged onto photobucket and I have created a subfolder to contain the photos I want to share, 6 steps are required to get the photo onto our Forum.
   
   
   I am a member of Club Lotus France (www.club-lotus.fr).
   We there have a Forum (members only) with direct upload of photos. Number of steps required for uploading this photo: 3
   
   If I want to post 10 pics here now for instance of an ACOC event I visited,it takes 120 steps as opposed to 30 with direct upload.
   
   Other downside of "external hosting": once the capacity of my account is used, I will have to either purchase additional capacity, or start removing pics from Albums, with the effect that they disappear from our Forum. There are numerous examples of such instances on various posts of our Forum.
   
   Of course direct hosting requires more capacity to be made available by the Club (for the benefit of its members and non-members if Forum is public).
   
   I agree with you that we should not restructure the current Forum (as I had already mentioned above). My proposal is for the addition of a public section that can be structured as necessary.
   
   Food for thought.
   
   

[nikbj68]

Nice one, Constant.
   If you add a " between the = http, and another one before the last ] that whole line of text will disappear:
   [URL="http;//website/album/picture.html"]