car values/desirability

[nick Godridge]

Point very well made DKPcobra.
   
   And so depressing!!
   
   Kind of illustrates the point I was trying to make about attitudes and lack of appreciation for the MK1V, even from within, it sometimes appears!
   
   Nick G

[westcott]

The same german forum, a different new user, my recommendation to go for a MK IV or V.
   
   The same response. [:)]
   
   Beyond belief.

[ak1040]

Hi all ,  I can see how upset we can get by the misunderstanding of the MKIV cobra , as it has happened to me several times , so do you sell or stand fast  , so I held back and  my son and I decided to get a porsche 356 to add to the AC , we also have a kit  car club for Cobras nearby to where we live who hold regular meetings which we attend with the AC and they often think it is a kit , , so for the next trip out I said can I bring the 356 , there response was all kit cars are welcome  , so now the 356 BT5 as well as the AC are now believed to both be kits . What can you say !  Neil

[Emmanueld]

I don't want to revive the heated MKIV discussion of a few years ago but the reasons why MKIV don't do well in the US are the following:
   
   They are subject to smog laws in most states and can't be easily modified. (I tried to re-register mine as a 60"s model and failed)
   They are an evolution of the original car and look very different than anything produced in the 60's, too costly to make them look like a MKIII
   Are a bit too "civilized" compared to an original.
   
   I think any Cobra buyer wants the wild look and performance of a MKII or III.
   
   The MKIV is a nice car, well built, but it lacks the wildness of the original. It's like a 70's or 80's Corvette, Does it compare with a StingRay? No. The later models have very weak engines and plastic bumpers. They are still Corvettes, but the soul is gone.
   
   Emmanuel[:)]

[BBK]

The Mk. IV is the refined evolution of the wide bodied 427 style Cobra of the 60's and the spiritual successor of the AC 289 Sports as it is set up as a "street" Cobra with rear exhaust and typically not fitted with a roll bar nor hood scoop, with small block Ford V8 power.  Definitely does not have the "wild" look of a 427 S/C Cobra which most fiberglass replicas duplicate.  I belong to the Bay Area Cobra Club and my Mk. IV is generally deemed by the other guys as the only other "real" Cobra in this large club, with the other "real" Cobra being a 427 S/C owned by one of the guys. All the other cars are various makes such a Superformance, Factory Five, Shell Valley, etc.  The fact that my car is an aluminum bodied car made by AC, the original manufacturer of these cars (along with Mr. Shelby's huge role of course!), carries a lot of water in terms of how the Mk IV is viewed, at least in my group of Cobra friends. I think when most people think of Cobras, they picture the wilder, hairier, 427 S/C style car, which is visually and auditorially considered to be the Cobra most people choose to have.  Thus the milder "street" Mk. IV is perhaps less to people's tastes. Frankly, I love the look of the Mk. IV and greatly prefer it and it's more refined and more of a typical sports car look to that of the S/C variant of the Cobra, but that is just my taste. On this side of the pond, most people equate the Cobra to Shelby vs. AC, and there are many who do not completely understand the huge role of AC in the making of the Cobra and in Cobra history. So many are not well educated in this regard.  But there are those who do "get it", and understand how special the Mk. IV is and how it fits in In Cobra history.

[ANF289]

quote:...the reasons why MKIV don't do well in the US are the following:
   
   They are subject to smog laws in most states and can't be easily modified. They are an evolution of the original car and look very different than anything produced in the 60's, too costly to make them look like a MKIII  The MKIV is a nice car, well built, but it lacks the wildness of the original. It's like a 70's or 80's Corvette, Does it compare with a StingRay? No. The later models have very weak engines and plastic bumpers. They are still Corvettes, but the soul is gone.
   
   Emmanuel[:)]
   

   Smog laws in many states no longer affect the Mk IV, they are typically waived for classic/historical registration.
   
   The esthetics between the 60's and 80's cars are so insignificant that many feel there is no need for a costly retrofit.  I happen to agree with BBK, the evolution of the design improves the car, as does the overall quality.  The fact that it was produced in the 80's makes it all that more remarkable.  There is really no comparison to the 80's Corvette.  The Mk IV was one of the fastest cars that could be bought in the US at that time.  You can't say that about the Corvette.  A fairer performance comparison would be with a federalized Porsche of that era.
   
   If you want a sports car for the street, it's the best Cobra money can buy... and on this side of the Atlantic it is still a great deal.  The performance difference between a 60's 289 (average reported road test 0-60 = 5.12 s, N = 5) and an 80's 302 (0-60 = 5.69 s, N = 3) is just not that great, and simply removing the smog equipment will eliminate that difference.   Anyone who has driven a properly set-up Mk IV would never think the soul is gone.  Quit the contrary: the gestalt is pure Cobra

[Emmanueld]

I used to have a Mark IV set up with a 351 Windsor and drove a couple of stock 302s, I also had a Kirkham that I set up with a properly built 427 with a TKO600 and I can tell you the MkIV are not even close. Maybe with a build motor it would be a different story. You also mean 0 to 60MPH not quarter mile, I can see the stock MKIV with it's less than 200HP Not in California! US smog 302 stock engine and big tires doing that 5.5 to 6.0 seconds 0 to 60 because of it's light weight but no less than that. As far as the shape, it is quite different from the the MK3 and the only common part is the basic chassis. As far as a comparison to a federalized Porsche,  I agree performance will be comparable to an early 80's basic 911 3.0 except in top speed of course with the Cobra barely able to brake the 120MPH mark, it's like a brick! The AC coil spring chassis although a great chassis for the 60's would not on par with any 1980's Porsche.
   On the track, I'll bet and with only a regular 944 i will go faster than any cobra or any 60's and probably 70's exotic for that matter. I remember a French car magazine in the early 80's comparing an E type Jaguar 3.8 to a stock Peugeot 505 Turbo both driven by racing drivers on the Montlhéry race track  and the Peugeot was gaining a second at each lap. You just can't compare the performance of cars that are so far apart in time. I can tell you, however fast and well set up my Kirkham was, I currently track a prepared Porsche 997.2  GT3 and there is no comparison whatsoever. Top Speed, acceleration, handling etc it's like apples and oranges. It's like a Model T compared to a Golf GTI. Let's enjoy classic cars for what they are, classics but for performance it's night and day.
   
   Emmanuel[:)]

[jbottini]

The oracle has spoken..again.

[SJ351]

There were a number of MK1V Cobras (as well as earlier Cobras) competing very successfully against more modern machinery in British club racing in the '90's .
   
   This was the AMOC Intermarque Championship where the Cobras mixed it with very highly modified Aston Martins, 911 RSR's, F40's, XJ220's etc.
   A MK1V won the championship in 1997.
   
   The Cobra suspension is very competent and mainly rose jointed as standard. The cars had race engines/gearboxes/wide tyres but, the suspension was pretty standard, apart from spring rates and anti roll bars.
   
   The Cobras were an impressive sight with some extremely good drivers all round.

[ANF289]

quote:Originally posted by Emmanueld
   
I used to have a Mark IV ...also had a Kirkham with a 427 and I can tell you the MkIV are not even close. ...You also mean 0 to 60MPH not quarter mile, ... As far as a comparison to a federalized Porsche,  I agree performance will be comparable to an early 80's basic 911... The AC coil spring chassis although a great chassis for the 60's would not on par with any 1980's Porsche.
   On the track, I'll bet and with only a regular 944 i will go faster than any cobra or any 60's and probably 70's exotic for that matter.  ...Let's enjoy classic cars for what they are, classics but for performance it's night and day.[:)]
   

   Right you are, 0 to 60.  But you're missing the point: no significant difference between the 60's and 80's cars' performance.   I'm sure if you throw a 427 in a Mk IV it will perform on par with your Kirkham... but who cares?  It really doesn't matter if you are driving on the street.
   
   Concerning the shape: Look again and look harder.  The differences are not as great as you would like to believe.  Variation in the lines of the Mk I, Mk II, and Mk III are as great or greater than that between the III and the IV.  But again, that's what makes a Mk IV a Mk IV.  The big difference is in the interior. Don't you just love that dash?  I do! [:D]
   
   And the Porsche/Cobra comparo isn't as big a stretch as you would like us to believe. The May 87 issue of Road & Track actually did that comparison (RUF 3.4 vs 351 Mk IV) and concluded that both cars offered capability that makes the term "too much" something of an understatement.  By the way, every R&T tester preferred the Cobra... so much for parity with any 80's Porsche.
   
   Good one about the 944...  I'd love to hear some more fairy tales, Grimm.[:)]
   
   We do agree that the most important thing is to enjoy your car... whatever it may be.

[Emmanueld]

The MKIV is quite a bit heavier than the MKIII, interior, bumper braces etc, also the shape is similar but different, foot boxes transmission tunnel, inner wings etc. I remember a certain MKIV being repaired by Mike McCluskey here in LA. To make a long story shorts, the car had been crashed in the front and the owner decided to turn it into a MKIII. The only piece that remained was the chassis. It became a gorgeous MKIII with a modern fuel injected SB, I believe the car was black. This is pretty much what a lightweight MKIV is. Unfortunately, it could not be imported to the states legally. There was also an interesting thread on this forum way back called Tool Time where the owner did something similar.
    Myself, I would have used a small block body if I was going to do that. The MKIV is a nice car, the dashboard is beautiful indeed. It's way more civilized and much safer  that the original cars, but personaly, I I prefer the raw appeal of the originals 60s models  the same way I would love a Porsche 550 Spider or an RS61.
   
   By the way, the 351 Windsor motor is a dog, it just won't spin, it was originaly designed for pick up trucks, it's much better to have a 302 or to build a short stroke 347 using a bored out 302 block. If you want a good spinning 351 it has to be a Cleveland, a much different animal.
   
   Emmanuel[:)]

[Hobo]

If you need more power Forget 302/351, take this one :-)): 427 cui, aluminium-block, 575 hp,  495 ft lbs, 4x48 IDA Weber carbs
   http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/ac-andere-cobra-mkiv-autokraft-werksr%C3%BCckbau-auf-mk-iii-frankfurt-am-main/190410850.html#utm_source=kleinanzeigen.ebay.de&utm_medium=textlink_VIP&utm_campaign=partner_ad&utm_content=more_information

[Emmanueld]

Of course a proper 427 FE would be better but it means replacing the transmission as well and modifying the foot boxes and transmission tunnel on the MKIV. You can also bore and stroke a small block to 427cu but it won't spin much and will not last. A properly built 347 will rev to 7,000 and will make the car fast and reliable. There are ton of parts available that can bring the motor to close to 500hp. I think it's the better option for a light cobra. At least that's what I would do!
   
   Emmanuel[:)]

[ANF289]

quote:Originally posted by Emmanueld
   
Of course a proper 427 FE would be better but it means replacing the transmission as well and modifying the foot boxes and transmission tunnel on the MKIV. You can also bore and stroke a small block to 427cu but it won't spin much and will not last. A properly built 347 will rev to 7,000 and will make the car fast and reliable. There are ton of parts available that can bring the motor to close to 500hp. I think it's the better option for a light cobra. At least that's what I would do!
   
   Emmanuel[:)]
   

A 302 producing 300 RWHP is more than sufficient, thank you.[;)]

[Emmanueld]

Well I can tell you after getting used to it, my Kirkham with its 500HP at the crank was fast but I wished I had a little more! I remember a lunch I had with my mechanic and a certain Hollywood executive who had a fuel injected Kirkham producing in excess of 750HP at the crank, when I mentioned I wished I had a bit more power he said "Me too" so you can get used to anything!!!!!
   
   Emmanuel[:D]