Another Unidentified Cobra

[aaron]

[/quote]
   
   We will have to see if the car turns up at a race track next year,

[rstainer]

This car, a Replica of unknown origin first seen at Spa in Sept 2011, carries the identity 'CSX2562'. The original CSX2562, last known owner Shelby American Corp, is believed to have been destroyed in the 60s.
   
   It is driven from time to time by Andrew Haddon and is on the front cover of last month's ACtion .
   
   RS

[nikbj68]

It was also co- driven by Shaun Lynn at the Silverstone Classic, and is closer in appearance to his Cobra than it is to 39PH, but maybe similarities are only skin-deep?!

[Cobra Ned]

It is truly amazing that so many street 289 Cobras which were written off in the mid-60's in the USA have been "found" in the UK decades later. And what's more, it turns out they weren't street cars at all - they were FIA-type race cars with split trunk (boot) lids and hard tops and alloy wheels, etc. You might begin to think some of these cars could be utter frauds, or would that be going too far?  [xx(]

[hawk289]

My view, if we all understand the origins of the car and history (even if new) I'm cool, you should pay for what it is worth. If a replica is advertised as a true 60's race car with racing history, original chassis / body then that is what it should be, not a replica. My SP250 race car has the original body / chassis (with a few patches due to racing incidents but we know it is the original from 1959 which makes it special (well in my eyes)

[nikbj68]

With the FiA HTP, it is quite legal(within racing regulations) to build a brand new Cobra/E-Type/250GTO etc. etc. to original spec, and with the value of original race cars going ever-more stratospheric, it is understandable that one would prefer to race a replica(in the truest sense of the word) than said original, but is it really neccesary to "find" them as Ned describes above? It would certainly ease the differentiation John mentions above!
   I`d rather see a full grid of (pukka) replicas, than an empty grid of originals!

[hawk289]

Fully agree, there are so few FIA cobra's from the 60's if one got destroyed it would be a big loss so I can understand the owners view point. My Daimler raced between 1960-64 in over 140+ races and won the national SCCA tight twice in different groups (EP and CP) no other Daimler and very few cars have ever done this, so quite important for me to look after for the future.

[nikbj68]

... And congratulations to you for your efforts, even in extremely trying circumstances on occasion! I didn`t realise there was so much racing history to your Daimler, a true legend in it`s own lifetime!!!

[rstainer]

The nub of the matter is: What is historic racing?
   
   The MSA defines it as: "Competitions under a set of rules that preserve the specification of their period and prevent modifications of performance and behaviour which could arise through the application of modern technology."
   
   Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, these considered words are not realised in practice. None of the leading cars are built to correct historical specification: a more-recently constructed cobra can have 65 more bhp, much greater torque, 50+ kg less weight and 300% more stiffness.
   
   This leaves owners of correct cars in a quandry:

Do you improve them?

Are you willing to tangle with aggressively driven winner-takes-all cars that have no intrinsic historical value?

Are you happy to remain a mid-field runner?

Do you restrict yourself to the very limited number of historic events that accord with the MSA's definition?

Or do you simply give up?

   The majority of newly-issued Cobra FIA HTPs are for cars built in the 21st Century. If you want to race a 21st Century car is it not better to buy one, rather than develop a form of hybrid motorsport that drives out cars built to correct historical specification?
   
   RS

[Cobra Ned]

There is also the matter of appropriating the VIN of a long-lost car to which one has no claim for use on a brand new one. Not an admirable practice if we want to maintain standards in the collector car arena.

[hawk289]

Robin, you raise a good point. My Daimler in period raced with Weber down draft and an MGA slip diff. The car was good for 240BHP, but when we ran at Revival had to put back to Sebring specification (the car raced at Sebring 12Hr in 1960). Look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NseJJ7qiAjM#t=71 go to 1:06 and you will see the Daimler racing, the car also would beat corvette's see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9PlcdfpBIk 1:05.
   
   My experience is the reverse of Cobra increase in performance. I can not remember seeing many Cobra's in period having one wheel off the ground due to stiff chase like modern racing. I personally think everyone should be open then we at least know.

[shep]

Gerry, I would suggest the 3 wheeling is more due to springs and roll bars, which competitors are free to modify under the rules. We made a torsional rigidity jig in our workshop, and put our cars on it. Shock horror, that the chassis is a major suspension component. It twisted like a ripe banana. That explained why they work better on tall profile cross plys, than low profile radials. They are much more forgiving if the tyre is not presented squarely to the track as the chassis twists and untwists.

[rstainer]

I'm not sure of this. A ripe banana (a useful analogy) is unlikely to take up three-wheeling no matter how its springs and roll bars are adjusted. What makes it three-wheel is changing the banana itself, adding up to 300% more torsional rigidity. It's the hybrid banana that drives out the original.
   
   RS

[TLegate]

The art of chassis stiffening was proven at the Revival circa 2003/4/5 when a few Cobras began to be....modified, shall we say....and the lap times of those one or two cars over a (not-so-modified) standard-spec Cobra was notable, by several seconds per lap. The owner of 39PH, a race driver of considerable experience, was a little amazed when a similar car went hurtling past on the outside of a corner, front wheel about six inches clear of the deck. He then realised it was not a level playing field.
   
   If you trawl through the period Shelby American files of Dave Friedman, very few photos show a front wheel off the deck, other than the first race Cobra that was twisting itself into knots! Those were the days before sleeved chassis..

[3.5 Pints at the Bar]

As Andy suggests, 3 wheeling comes largely down to a difference in front and rear roll stiffnesses. It's true that this is transmitted via the chassis, but even a very flexible chassis (e.g. 500ft-lbs per degree) would only equate to a small fraction of an inch at a wheel under high cornering weight transfer. 3 wheeling spectacles aside, chassis stiffness comes in handy!