Very special CRS for sale !

[French Frie]

Oh,oh,oh ... Our registrar is selling his car [}:)] !
   
   http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page/192042/2000-ac-cobra/?utm_source=classic_email_alerts&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=classic_cars_for_sale
   
   Good luck and very georgous CRS, Alan [:)] !

[Chafford]

Sure this one will sell quickly!
   
   http://www.classicmobilia.com/Pages/ACCobraCRSMkIV.aspx
   
   
   

[SJ351]

Nice add but, surprisingly it contains quite a few factual innacuracies unfortunately.The CRS cars do seem to be snapped up quickly. I missed one last year by hours.

[Alan Faulkner-Stevens]

I am very interested by your factual innacuracies in the write up. Would you please let us know what they are?
   thank you

[TLegate]

You're not the only one Alan! I think we should be told......

[jbottini]

Yes, the rest of the story, SJ351please!

[SJ351]

Having only glanced at the ad last week it seemed to be of the typically poorly informed and researched car broker type of 'Cobra' advertisement which is why our cars are so often misunderstood or deemed to be kit cars by the general public as a result of such misinformation being quoted as fact. On behalf of the owners of these fantastic cars I feel it is important to report the correct facts within the public domain as such misinformation only devalues the AC brand. Without wishing to appear pedantic (OK, OK) the factual errors are :
   
   Did AC build the first Mk1 Cobra in 1963? That means that the 50th anniversary is this year not last year? Mk1 Cobra production began in 1962.
   
   Frua bodied car used the same Cobra drive train underneath? Most big block Cobras in period used the 427 engine. The Frua used the 428FE unit in the main - hence the AC 428 designation.
   
   "When Lubinsky closed the doors to the factory in 1992'' There was the Brooklands factory till 2002, the Frimley factory then the Normandy factory till 2005 - all in Surrey, UK, all Lubinsky.
   
   Did Lubinsky only build Superblowers and the CRS cars in the UK? What about the Continuation Cobras and 'gliders' (incomplete cars sold as body/chassis units)/the factory backed Continuation 427 competition car/the Brooklands Aces completed under his reign/Brooklands Aceca/cars built for Shelby USA/the MK11 FIA cars/the two 212 SC Lotus engined cars/the Mamba prototype/the MK11 Centenary cars with the larger MK111 main chassis tubes, not to mention the cars he has had a hand in overseas (RSA Aces) since closing the UK factories?
   
   Lubinsky's own MK1V Lightweight car was used to make the CRS moulds - it was under restoration at the Brooklands factory then Frimley afterwards as it was badly damaged by that process.
   
   45 Mk1V Lightweights built by Brian Angliss? The factory produced c.26 of these only but the ACOC Registrar has over 80 cars recorded I believe (although these do include the AKL 'Look-a-Lightweight' cars - as the phrase was coined by the factory technicians as the specification became more like the standard MK1V after 1991).
   
   Exact original 1960's body shape to the CRS (moulded from the MK1V Lightweight)? The Mk1V Lightweight body was not exactly 'made' from the 1960's Cobra jigs. It is a different shape on the scuttle, doors, sills, rear quarters, bonnet scoop (where applicable) with longer doors and wider cockpit. Essentially, the Mk1V bucks and patterns and the CRS are different to the original Mk111 '60's Cobra and have their own body bucks and chassis tooling. 
   
   The chassis on the CRS is made from both round tubing and box section tubing - unlike the '60s cars and the MK1V Lightweight. The box tube is easier to weld and notch out than round tube - it was all about costs.
   
   Formula 2 racing company built the CRS bodies? Formula 2 ended in 1984 and was replaced by F3000, before being revived again in 2005/8. The CRS bodies were built by Kid Jensen Racing - F3000, not F2.
   
   To quote an AC Cars press release from 1998 for the CRS : 'This body is the result of collaboration between AC and Kid Jensen Racing, owners of a leading Formula 3000 team. Protech Motorsport Ltd, an associated company of Kid Jensen Racing, will be building the carbon fibre pre-impregnated bodies at its Bordon, Hampshire, premises using a high temperature (120 degrees C) autoclave to ensure exceptional quality levels. The bodies, which utilise laminated carbon fibre cloth and thermoset epoxy resin materials technology taken directly from today's Formula 1 cars, will be assembled by AC in the ÚK. The craftsman's approach to the fit and finish (including the hand-stitched hood and tonneau cover) used on the Superblower will be applied.'
   
   The quality of the bodies did vary and were a bit of a nightmare for the AC Cars paint shop to deal with - they were nicknamed the 'solvent s**t-boxes' for this reason and the carbon fibre weave could clearly be seen through the paintwork. The body joints were blended with polyester body filler.
   
   Some further info that may be of interest :
   
   The CRS had substandard box section spring tower material used in its construction. Flexing caused cracks in the welds. The 1960's tubular spring towers and the Mk1V's likewise, sustained higher stresses in the race environment and with 427 power.
   
   Box section suspension wishbones (front and rear) were manufactured as a redesign by Brian Angliss for the Mk1V. The rear castings for the uprights differ from the Mk111 and the front forgings for the front uprights also are unique to the MK 1V. Very early Autokraft Mk1V's used Mk111 uprights and wishbones but not the Lightweights or CRS.
   
   Just for clarification there are separate jigs, bucks and tooling for the Mk1V's and CRS i.e. for the chassis, body and suspension.
   
   The CRS was produced as a viable alternative to the much more expensive aluminium bodied cars and to make top flight kit car builds pointless by price comparison. However, by this time, a decent used aluminium Mk1V car could be purchased with very low miles for the same money as a new CRS at c.£40k, making them rather second best still to the discerning AC enthusiast.
   
   The MkV Malta built car that followed was based on the CRS chassis jig and body moulds. It failed in quality to its CRS predecessor but shared the tooling.
   
   (EOE)

[nikbj68]

Pretty damned comprehensive. Thank you!

[Flyinghorse]

"The chassis on the CRS is made from both round tubing and box section tubing - unlike the '60s cars and the MK1V Lightweight. The box tube is easier to weld and notch out than round tube - it was all about costs."
   
   I would beg to differ as also published in literature is that due to the light weight of the CRS body that the extra tube work of the Mkiv  that was required to support the alloy body was not required so substantial weight savings could be made.
   I have also seen early MkIv's with box section. Also looking at a CRS theres not that much box section and where placed allows easy access for gearbox changes etc.
   
   I would also think a decent welder could weld & notch any tubing be it round or square.
   
   It would not surprise me if a CRS is lighter than the fabled 26 light weights....
   
   The point of the advert in my opinion is missed in that Alan/his dealer is simply trying to elevate his car to the top of the pile by taking cheap shots at repaired CRS cars (of which there are at least 3 ) and later CRS owners (Factualy correct or not). Not behaviour to be condoned by a registrar ,but shrouded by doing it via a dealer to turn a few pounds.
   
   Why not simply list it as the best or one of the best CRS cars for sale? The car should speak for its self.  Perhaps I am not party to some other agenda going on here.
   
   Graham

[302EFI]

Stephen - An impressive note. I am just puzzling about the acronym at the end. Terms which I found out via Google (such as 'End of Evangelion' / 'Echoes of Eternity' / 'Elgin-O'Hare Expressway') do not really seem to fit. ;-)

[B.P.Bird]

Jürgen,
   'Errors and Omissions Excepted' more generally rendered as 'E&OE' which is why you got some funny results from your search as Stephen bamboozled us by dropping the '&'. Now we can get to searching for bamboozled....
   Turning to the topic in hand: I too suspect that the CRS may be the lightest of the Mk IV family and I also learned, many years ago, never to use advertising as a source of facts.

[REV]

Stephen,
   
   That is an impressive amount of research that you've done.
   
   I think we all realize that you must own on of the "26" cars and I'm sure you love it and obviously feel it is far superior to other cars in the MKIV series. Those are you thoughts and you are very welcome to hold them.
   
   But that is not a reason to slang off other variants of the same species. People hold their cars as dearly as you do. Innuendo of what factory workers said and didn't say is neither here nor there. If you have ever been in charge of workmen and heard them talk about either the job they're on, fellow workers or management you will know how vindictive and petty they can be. Heresay on any shop floor is rife and discontent abounds, usually for no great reason.
   
   I know you were asked to explain your comments, but I think you do yourself no service nor the marque by being as pedantic as this. There were flaws in most of the cars produced by AC all the way through the years. Most have been put right by owners and many improved upon by those that cherish their cars. Twenty years on they are generally fixed and sorted.
   
   The number of lightweights built is also open to debate as you say, but if factory records show the cars as AKL's then history will have them as Lightweights whether or not you like the idea. You will not alter that by shouting harder than others.  There may be different specifications of car, but as long as the records say they are so that will be the case. Some are better, some are worse, but all are Lightweights and all are AC's. Above all they are all someones pride and joy.
   
   Please enjoy your car, cherish it and become part of the AC community, but taking a superior line over other variants is demeaning to other owners. Have a little respect for fellow enthusiasts.
   
   May you always enjoy your car, have pride of ownership in the car, but also enjoy the fellowship of a group of people that are worth knowing. The MKIV owners are on the whole such people.
   
   PS wise words from Mr. Bird!!!! Advertising is meant to paint a picture and sell, not be a source of knowledge.

[CRS9505]

Well there's a storm in a teacup! One point in the lesson definitely rings true though, buying a CRS at around or below replica money is a fantastic entre into AC motoring for those of us who frittered our money away on other things( mostly divorces I believe) during the seventies. Also I take great pleasure pointing out the weave in my bodywork to many of the true motoring enthusiasts who love to talk ACs or just cars at the many events I attend.[:)]

[REV]

No storm...  But agreed! The idiosyncrasies of  owning these cars are so much part of the pleasure. :-) The joy of owning something that can create debate is what makes the cars so different. You would never have these debates about general cars at all.

[Alan Faulkner-Stevens]

Dear SJ 351, thank you for your very detailed attack on the advertisment for my car, it was very much appreciated and enjoyed. While some of the finer points in your response add more needed detail, some sound very bitter...sorry, my observation.
   I think you entirely missed the point, which most of the other members completely got.
   Flying Horse...There was no cheap shots intended at the documented repaired car, as i recommended the repairer, and the job completed was astounding. Any owner who damaged his car could not have wished for better and until that point, CRS owners had no repair facility available.
   So SJ352, if you are so unhappy by the advertisment, why don't you phone me personally to discuss it? rather then posting without a name.
   Alan Faulkner-Stevens