No respect

[Chafford]

There appears to be a point where all Brooklands produced cars were described as ACs. I'm wondering whether this happened when Brian Angliss acquired 100% ownership of AC Cars or when Pride Automotive took over in 1996.  Perhaps Mr Legate will be able to confirm.

[shep]

I just re-read this thread from the start, and it reminds me so much of my wife's chosen sport. She devotes thousands of hours and Lord knows how much cash, on training and competing beautiful dressage horses. Like our own Concours d'Elegance, the winner is chosen at the whim of a judge or panel of judges. Karen used to get so angry when she reviewed the video of a test where she had been beaten by the judge's second cousin's dog walker, or whatever. Even I could see that the result was wrong, but if you sign up for a daft competition which depends not on fact, but an subjective opinion, what do you expect? I have always preferred sports where you cross the line first, return the ball more times, jump higher or whatever it takes to win. At least Karen now chases perfection on her own terms, and doesn't pay too much attention to the results as decided by the judges. I think she makes a beautiful picture.

[MkIV Lux]

Fully agree, Andy. Know that sport pretty well and the frustrations that it can generate. :-) Your own feeling of getting your horse to perform as you wish it does is more important than the judges' subjective opinion, too often biased.

[Chafford]

This November 1992 article from 'Car' magazine refers to the car as an 'Autokraft' and the car has the Autokraft badge on it, which suggests that strictly speaking  'Autokraft' rather than 'AC' was the manufacturer of record.
   
   http://www.flickr.com/photos/triggerscarstuff/sets/72157629509510133/with/6952129891/
   
   And this official US EPA fuel economy site describes the Mk IV as an Autokraft Ltd A.C. Mark IV
   
   http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/28959.shtml

[302EFI]

Thank you for your input, Mark. Whenever in the past I was asked whether my car was a 'true' Cobra I used to respond something like: 'Well, yes, it was built in 1987 by AC Cars which is the company that together with Carroll Shelby produced the legendary Cobras in the 1960ies...' It appears now that this statement is not quite correct if one takes a very formal approach. In view of the fact, however, that after 1986 Angliss/Autokraft did not only have the right to use the AC Cars name and logo but also had access to AC Cars' operating assets (such as staff, tools, equipment), the statement does not seem to be really false or misleading.

[Chafford]

As often is the case, nothing in life is simple, Jurgen! However, all Mk IVs from 1982 onwards were licensed to use the AC badge and outside the USA, by Ford to use the 'Cobra' moniker (up until June 2002). From 1986, Brian Angliss as AC boss was effectively giving himself permission as Autokraft boss to descibe his cars as 'ACs'.
   
   I think therefore it's accurate in the broad sense to say that your car was built by 'AC'!

[BBK]

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   
As often is the case, nothing in life is simple, Jurgen! However, all Mk IVs from 1982 onwards were licensed to use the AC badge and outside the USA, by Ford to use the 'Cobra' moniker (up until June 2002). From 1986, Brian Angliss as AC boss was effectively giving himself permission as Autokraft boss to descibe his cars as 'ACs'.
   
   I think therefore it's accurate in the broad sense to say that your car was built by 'AC'!
   

   
   Here are a few pictures from my car (AK 1216) which shows a manufacturing date in October 1987, which was from what I understand, after the date  by which Brian Angliss acquired the controlling interest in AC from the Hurlock family.  The timing of this event (1986) is shown in one of my smaller period brochures from the Company that contains a timeline of events.  The Certificate of Origin for my car shows the manufacturer as "A.C. Autokraft".
   
   
   
   
   
   Interestingly, each sill plate in my car shows the Autokraft logo in the middle, with AC to the left and the "Cobra" symbol to the right.  My car was imported directly to the U.S. by the first owner and was not purchased through a U.S. dealer.  I understand that the U.S. cars were not allowed to use the "Cobra" trademark, so it is interesting that my car has it!  Here is a picture...
   
   
   
   In a large multi-page period brochure from Autokraft that I have, a page contains the following statement.  Not sure if this sheds light on whether the cars are Autokraft cars or AC cars.  I am thinking that up until a certain date, the cars are considered to be made by Autokraft but called the A.C. Mk IV.
   
   "Autokraft Limited is a totally independent privately owned British Company, incorporated in 1977 occupying its own recently constructed Freehold factory premises of some 33,000 square feet.  The building is sited on four acres of land within the historic motor racing circuit of Brooklands in Surrey and is part of an overall Freehold factory area of 90,000 square feet which is shared with A.C. Cars Limited."
   
   "Brian Angliss is the majority Shareholder in Autokraft who, in turn, are major Shareholders in A.C. Cars.  Brian Angliss is also the Managing Director of both Autokraft and A.C. Cars.  Autokraft's principle activity has, for the past fourteen years, been the manufacture of two improved and updated versions of the original 1968 A.C. Cobra - the A.C. Mk IV High Output and the Lightweight versions."
   
   I believe the large multipage Autokraft brochure is from 1990, after my car was made.  The timeline in another, smaller period brochure I have, shows that AC Cars moved to its new factory in 1988 and that the lightweight version of the MK IV was introduced in 1990.  As the "Lightweight" is referenced in my large brochure, this leads me to believe that the large Autokraft brochure is from 1990.  The smaller brochure with the timeline has no reference to Autokraft at all...only AC Cars Limited.  The last timeline date in this particular brochure is 1992, thus this is likely when this smaller brochure was made.  The 1992 timeline date references Brian Angliss' purchase of Ford's interest in AC Cars Limited, thus perhaps it is in 1992 that the cars were "officially" manufactured by AC Cars Limited vs. Autokraft?  Not sure.  I have the smaller brochure scanned into a PDF file.  If anyone is interested, please email me and I can attach and send a copy.

[Chafford]

It would be interesting to see a chassis plate from a '93 - '96 MkIV
   
   This link to a MkIV owners manual refers to Autokraft as the manufacturer:
   
   http://rides.webshots.com/album/31597373CwUCdBYNFd
   
   However if you look at the first brochure on the following site (from 1992/3), only AC Cars are referred to not Autokraft.
   
   http://rides.webshots.com/album/27455338FImWfuvVLR

[BBK]

The first  brochure you refer to with the red Mk IV on the cover is the same one I have with the timeline of events.  Anyone have a 1993-1996 chassis plate?

[Chafford]

A couple of photos of MkIVs from the Redline Engineering sales site:
   
   The 1994 London Motor Show car (recently sold):
   
   
   
   And a 1997 car currently for sale (one of the last produced?) - the chassis plates (upside down on the opposite side) can't be seen very well but you can just make out if you look closely that both plates say 'AC Cars':
   
   

[302EFI]

quote:
   ...
   I have the smaller brochure scanned into a PDF file.  If anyone is interested, please email me and I can attach and send a copy.
   ...
   

   Robert, first of all thank you for your contribution. I tried to send you an e-mail through the ACOC system but recieved a delivery failure notification. Could you please send me your e-mail address?
   Jürgen

[BBK]

quote:Originally posted by 302EFI
   

quote:
   ...
   I have the smaller brochure scanned into a PDF file.  If anyone is interested, please email me and I can attach and send a copy.
   ...
   

   Robert, first of all thank you for your contribution. I tried to send you an e-mail through the ACOC system but recieved a delivery failure notification. Could you please send me your e-mail address?
   Jürgen
   

   
   Hi Jurgen. Just emailed you from the site.

[AK1131]

How do I post a photo on this page?

[BBK]

quote:Originally posted by AK1131
   
How do I post a photo on this page?
   

   
   Fred, here is a link to a recent Forum lesson from Nik on posting photos.
   
   http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2560

[ANF289]

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   
As often is the case, nothing in life is simple, Jurgen! However, all Mk IVs from 1982 onwards were licensed to use the AC badge and outside the USA, by Ford to use the 'Cobra' moniker (up until June 2002). From 1986, Brian Angliss as AC boss was effectively giving himself permission as Autokraft boss to descibe his cars as 'ACs'.
   
   I think therefore it's accurate in the broad sense to say that your car was built by 'AC'!
   

There seems to be much to do about nothing.  We know that sometime in 1986 CP Autokraft bought AC, and then sold a controlling interest (50.96%) to Ford soon after.  Thus, Ford and Autokraft owned AC, which "manufactured" the Mk IV.  This is no different than GM owning Chevrolet, which manufactures the Corvette (and GM is stamped all over Cheverolets just like Autokraft is stamped on ACs), or BMW owning Rolls Royce, which manufactures the Phantom (I haven't checked-out any Phantoms to see if BMW is stamped anywhere).  After Ford was bought-out by Autokraft it became the sole parent company.  God knows what happened after that. [:0]