CSX 3360

[BBK]

At the Danville D'Elegance, a local car show a couple of weeks ago, my Mk IV was parked next to CSX 3360 owned by Bruce Canepa.  Bruce owns a collector car dealership in Scotts Valley, CA south of San Francisco (a world class operation).  Bruce had various Cobras at the Monterey Historics in August and raced one of his cars there. Anyway, I wanted to post some pictures of his car, which was the last 427 Cobra made by AC cars according to Bruce's story board.  Pictures also include a 50th anniverary Shelby Cobra 289 and my Mk IV.  There were lots of other terrific cars at the show.  My car was invited to be in the show as were all the other terrific cars.  The Danville show is put on every year to raise money for Parkinson's Disease research.
   
   CSX 3360
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Gratuitous photo of my Mk IV with CSX 3360 in background
   
   
   
   50th Anniversary Shelby 289 Cobra
   
   
   

[French Frie]

thanks for the pics !
   two questions regarding CSX3360:
   - why are the rear wheels so "within" the arches ? is the body enlarged ?
   - is the "Jaguar style" (like MKIV) fuel cap genuine ? was it a later Cobras specification ?
   
   PS: your MKIV is gorgeous [;)] !

[REV]

All vey nice cars.
   
   Nice to see the other British "Icon" in the background as well.... The Old red Phone box!
   
   A least there isn't a hint of British weather.
   
   :-)

[Chafford]

The glassfibre version of the 50th anniversary Shelby is essentially the same car that AC will sell as the Mk11 Classic - built by HiTech in South Africa.

[BBK]

quote:Originally posted by French Frie
   
thanks for the pics !
   two questions regarding CSX3360:
   - why are the rear wheels so "within" the arches ? is the body enlarged ?
   - is the "Jaguar style" (like MKIV) fuel cap genuine ? was it a later Cobras specification ?
   
   PS: your MKIV is gorgeous [;)] !
   
   

   
   Thanks for the compliment on my car!  I had a blast talking about my car and educating people about what an AC is.  It is surprising how many people think Shelby made the bodies and chassis and other critical components made by AC.  Maybe it is more of a U. S. thing.  Re. CSX 3360 I have seen a number of photos in various Cobra books showing rear wheel arches that are very wide such that the rear tires have much more room within the wheel wells than other 427 Cobras.  The Mk IV cars are built on 427 body bucks and as you can see with my car, the clearances around the rear wheel wells are much closer.  Perhaps the later 427 cars had wider wheel well openings than other 427's. not sure, but I bet other forum members know the answer......Trevor?  Anyway, it was nice to see a non 427 S/C Cobra (though there is nothing wrong with one of these!).  Most 427 cars I have seen are the S/C cars vs. in "street" form like CSX 3360. That car was fantastic. It was in as new condition...perfect in all aspects. A true #1 car.   Regarding the gas cap, I do not know the answer to that. Perhaps it was standard on the "street" spec Cobras vs. the racing quick fill gas cap on the S/C cars.

[BBK]

quote:Originally posted by REV
   
All vey nice cars.
   
   Nice to see the other British "Icon" in the background as well.... The Old red Phone box!
   
   A least there isn't a hint of British weather.
   
   :-)
   
   
   

   
   It was a fantastic day weather wise. It got pretty warm in the afternoon....upper 80's.  typical California weather in this part of the Bay Area where it gets very warm, little fog and lots of sun and no humidity.  Perfect weather for a U. S. International I think! [;)].  Danville has a nice British pub style restaurant where I believe that phone booth is outside of.

[French Frie]

BBK,
   regarding History (cobras or not), it's well-known that most of the american people are not very fond of [;)] ... French people are more radicals : they do not even know that Shelby has lived [:o)]!
   
   regarding wheel arches, they were indeed enlarged for wider tires, but for a street version it looks odd ! you're probably right about the fuel cap regarding its street dress, and I can only second you about the fact that's a pity that so many cars were converted in S/Cs (same story for blue/white stripes dress) ! but my understanding is that, as people get more cobra-educated, they appreciate more and more the street version ... and some cars are now street retrofitted !
   
   what I like in the MKIV shape is precisely this street dress, with underbody exhausts,etc... it highlights the thin waist at the doors (that you do not find on plastic replicas), and watching your MKIV and CSX3360 side by side demonstrates the similarities !
   
   thanks again for pics, and sorry for potential english mistakes [;)]!

[SunDude]

The original 427 competition Cobras used wider wheels than the later street cars, hence the wide rear fenders.
   
   Early on in the 427 street car run, AC Cars and Shelby American tried out a "narrow hip" rear fender design to better balance the wheel and fender widths.  But Shelby didn't like the look and went back to the wider rear fenders.  AC Cars, on the other hand, kept the narrow hip design for their 289 Sports models (COB and COX 6100 series).
   
   We all know that Autokraft had access to the original Cobra body bucks.  But did they use the narrow hip design...with an extra lip added...for the Mk IV?  That's what it looks like in the photos above.
   
   Lastly, the smaller fuel filler cap is what was used on all the street Cobras.  The larger Monza filler cap was used on the comp cars.  Many original street Cobras were modified to comp specs, and almost all of the replicas use the Monza style cap, which is why you're probably most used to seeing the larger gas caps.

[TLegate]

Correction - we don't know that Autokraft had access to the 427 body bucks. The reason is simple - they went into a skip many years prior to that. Ask Gerry Hawkridge who was at AC at the time when he was a student on work placement. He would have kept them himself but he couldn't get them into the back of a Mini! Autokraft did have the 289 bucks.

[French Frie]

thanks for the explanation, Monsieur Legate (& SunDude)!it's a pity that Autokraft, regarding your comment, didn't produce 289s on a regular basis... I must say that it is my prefered shape (hence my begining with a 289 BRA) !
   BTW, I don't want to abuse, but how many 289s were produced by Brian Angliss ?

[French Frie]

last anorak question: do we know where 427 body bucks are now ?

[SunDude]

Really?  I don't doubt that you're correct Trevor, given the amount of first-hand research you've done over the years.  But I thought I'd read many, many magazine articles that said Angliss had the original body bucks.  Did I misread them, or was the P.R. spin overspun?
   
   

quote:Originally posted by TLegate
   
Correction - we don't know that Autokraft had access to the 427 body bucks. The reason is simple - they went into a skip many years prior to that. Ask Gerry Hawkridge who was at AC at the time when he was a student on work placement. He would have kept them himself but he couldn't get them into the back of a Mini! Autokraft did have the 289 bucks.
   

[BBK]

quote:Originally posted by French Frie
   
BBK,
   regarding History (cobras or not), it's well-known that most of the american people are not very fond of [;)] ... French people are more radicals : they do not even know that Shelby has lived [:o)]!
   
   regarding wheel arches, they were indeed enlarged for wider tires, but for a street version it looks odd ! you're probably right about the fuel cap regarding its street dress, and I can only second you about the fact that's a pity that so many cars were converted in S/Cs (same story for blue/white stripes dress) ! but my understanding is that, as people get more cobra-educated, they appreciate more and more the street version ... and some cars are now street retrofitted !
   
   what I like in the MKIV shape is precisely this street dress, with underbody exhausts,etc... it highlights the thin waist at the doors (that you do not find on plastic replicas), and watching your MKIV and CSX3360 side by side demonstrates the similarities !
   
   thanks again for pics, and sorry for potential english mistakes [;)]!
   

   
   French Frie, your english is very good!  I think you are somewhat right in your observations on Americans and history.  The story of Shelby and AC Cars is so interesting, but it seems that the AC part of the story is mostly glossed over in the U.S.  Many people recognize the Shelby name but not AC.  Without AC, there would have been no Cobra and vice versa.  I was surprised that at the Monterey Historic races, that AC Cars was not more recognized as part of the Shelby heritage.  In fact, it would have been cool to have AC and Shelby recognized as the featured Marques at the event.  Perhaps another time...  I too appreciate the look of the MK IV and 427 "steet" Cobra with the underbody exhaust.  It is interesting what you mention of S/C cars being retrofitted to street trim.  Perhaps a new trend!

[BBK]

quote:Originally posted by TLegate
   
Correction - we don't know that Autokraft had access to the 427 body bucks. The reason is simple - they went into a skip many years prior to that. Ask Gerry Hawkridge who was at AC at the time when he was a student on work placement. He would have kept them himself but he couldn't get them into the back of a Mini! Autokraft did have the 289 bucks.
   

   
   To Sundude and Trevor and French Frie....very interesting about the 427 body bucks.  I was under the impression that the Mk IV cars were produced on these same body bucks as the 60's 427 cars.  I have collected a number of "period" articles in various car magazines from the U.S. and Europe re. the MK IV. and the impression from reading the articles is that Brian Angliss acquired the original body bucks from AC and used them for production of the Mk IV.  Sounds like he definitely acquired the body bucks for the 289 cars per Trevor.  I was able to purchase a large multi-page Autokraft brochure from the 80's which states...
   
   "Autokraft is the only company in the world that owns the original chassis assembly jigs and fixtures, the original drop forging dies, bodywork formers and specialized tooling as used by A.C. Cars during the 1960s for the construction of each and every A.C. Cobra manufactured.
   
   It is by using these very same jigs, fixtures, formers, tools and equipment that the Mk IV variants are produced.  Over 2500 highly skilled man hours go into the manufacture of each car, retaining to this day the traditional coachbuilding methods used by A.C. Cars and perpetuated by the craftsmen of Autokraft Limited."
   
   Trevor, your book states regarding Brian Angliss..."Original moulds for assorted parts were tracked down and purchased from various ex-AC contractors and later even the original body formers were acquired from AC.  Cobra Parts could now supply body panels and these were sent to a company in the USA, Cobra Performance of Sacramento, in exchange for gearbox and engine items."
   
   Based on all I have read, including the Autokraft literature and magazine articles, my assumption was that the Mk IV was built on the original 427 chassis jigs and body bucks.  I am sorry if I have mis-stated the situation concerning the body work of the Mk IV and stand corrected.  Thank you Trevor.  As French Frie asks...what happened to the original 427 body bucks and do we know where they are now?

[B.P.Bird]

Pedants corner: With regard to Brian's interesting post from Canada, mentioning fuel filler caps, the correct alloy quick release cap you see on competition Cobras and many other fifeties and sixties GT and sports racing cars is not a 'Monza' cap it is an 'Aston' and both types of cap were made by Enots in Birmingham. You can see the 'Monza' style on the 2 litre saloon and very early Aces. You have to note that the correct cap is an 'Aston with roller catch' as Enots also introduced an 'Aston' cap with a simpler, non-roller catch. Here are a couple of pages from an old Enots brochure with 'Monza' and both types of 'Aston' catches shewn.