AC badge - which model please?

[Old Crock]

Can someone enlighten me and please tell me from which model this AC badge is? Thanks in advance!
   
   
   
   

[SB7015]

Are you wanting to sell this?

[Old Crock]

quote:Originally posted by Spikey-fish
   
Are you wanting to sell this?
   

The opposite. I bidded on this badge at auction yesterday. The owner had entered some very rare and genuine automobile badges, from the likes of Mathis and Brennabor, and this AC badge was advertised as being from the 1930/40s. I thought it was earlier as AC used this style of script particularly in the Edwardian period (pre 1920), but I was unsure if they may have used it subsequently, even for nostalgic reasons, and maybe not as a radiator logo. I have photos showing similar style badges on the Fivet model and I found a photo of a unique radiator mascot, probably 1920's, of a bear holding the exact same badge (see below).
   
   Apart from the posting above I emailed two other AC owners who both thought the badge 'very old' but could not be more precise. Another long-standing AC devotee has replied saying a 1921 car that he once owned had a badge 'very much like this one'.
   
   I left a bid of (up to) £100, but I now know the bidding powered past this and the final price, with tax added, was more than £150, so two people, or more, obviously knew something about this badge that I didn't, whether that was its rarity, collectability, I don't know....
   
   

[Old Crock]

A little snippet to add.
   
   I was told the following last night:
   A few years back groundwork was taking place at the site of the Royal Victoria Military Hospital at Netley, Southampton. They unearthed many army cap badges, buttons, old coins and, guess what.....the badge below! The hospital was used for some 100 years so this doesn't help with dating the badge.
   
   They say it was curved, made of brass or copper, and they assumed it had come from a radiator. It was sent to the museum of the Army Medical Services.
   
   

[Robin A Woolmer]

Is this prior art? to the use by Auto Carriers? some cap badges have similar script!

[Old Crock]

quote:Originally posted by Robin A Woolmer
   
Is this prior art? to the use by Auto Carriers? some cap badges have similar script!
   

Hi Robin
   
   Much too big for the likes of a cap badge - this one's nearly five inches diameter! (See pic 2). If used prior to AutoCarriers then the famous AC logo had been stolen all along....perish the thought.

[Classicus]

There does seems something Art Nouveau about it which ran from the late 19th C. to the early 20th if it's any help....
   
   http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=art+nouveau+style&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=VfHUT9uTDozS8QOn3tySAw&sqi=2&ved=0CJMBELAE&biw=1024&bih=630
   
   http://www.gaudiallgaudi.com/A0003.htm
   
   
   Also looking at the two elongated holes on the left of the badge and the one in the upper half of the letter "A", there's some similarity here I think....
   
   
   
   
   
   ....especially in this garden seat pic below where the same elongated metal hole at the top of the armrest joins the top wooden bar across the back of the seat itself.
   
   http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnnyenglish/3194142827/
   
   

[Robin A Woolmer]

As this was found on a military site it may have associations therefore with it , in the badge of the 'Royal Armoured Corps'the A & C are as the AC company Logo, so we may be seeing prior art! & therefore not be unique to the AC Company!!

[Old Crock]

Classicus – Here's a photo of an enamel sign I have. I show it as (a) it's in the Art Nouveau style, to which you refer, with its colours and scrolls and shows the rounded corners to the triangle of the letter 'A' (b) it was for the Automobile Club of Great Britain and Ireland, which used predominantly the letters AC in their logo, as can be seen. The ACGBI received its Royal warrant in 1907, becoming the Royal Automobile Club (RAC), so this sign predates that.
   
   
   Robin – I started looking into other companies, and societies, that used the letters AC (hence the above), though I'm convinced these badges would have been used, somewhere, by AC Cars. The digging at the hospital retrieved other items not directly military, for example filigree, a ladies brooch, a sewing box, bedpost knobs etc. Old rubbish tips can be a treasure trove of bygones!
   
   Finally, some photos of the AC logo from the period 1911 to early 20's. The first, Auto-Carrier's logo, note the hyphen between the 'A' and 'C' that was carried through. The second is an advert for the AC Fivet, with the third showing the AC logo from that ad, and lastly, the nickel radiator badge of an early 20's car.
   
   I think these show the badges we have discussed must be linked to AC Cars, but where used and precisely when, I don't know. All three are made of brass/copper and show no nickel but stippling between the letters, which may be relevant.  The one that started the correspondence is shown for comparison.
   
   All the best
   
   
   
   
   

[Robin A Woolmer]

I was hoping that if we could proove prior art that it would improve our case to have our Club Logo back, this though migh be a long shot but what is correct is that the basic form of the letters was widely used, maybe i should put it on the back burner!
   
   Robin

[Gus Meyjes]

I Like the way you think, Robin... But i thought the point was the club did not have the funds to get into this battle and therefore conceded.
   
   Gus

[Robin A Woolmer]

Gus
   If Prior Art could be proven the cost to challenge AC should be quite small & hopefully not come to that with careful handling, there is still great benefit for both parties in working together & not having conflict.
   
   Robin

[nikbj68]

Well I for one am hoping that a new 'entente cordiale' could be hammered out between the new heads of The Club & AC respectively, as to maintain the original Club logo is mutually beneficial to the Club & AC themselves, but we digress, that is an issue for another time, I think.
   
   Back to this badge. The 'Gladman & Norman' cast ACOC badges had a similar stippling or hatching effect which was part of the enamelling process, although not visible in the white areas, it gives an almost metallic appearance to the red area, as can be seen on this damaged badge.
   
   
   So, maybe this badge was originally enamelled?

[REV]

Nik's correct in saying that the dappling effect is consistent with the AC logo badge. It is done this way so that the enamel has a surface on wich to grip.
   
   Enamel is very basically ground glass which is repeatedly heated and applied, heated and applied until the required thickness is reached. It is then levelled with pumice and polished.
   
   The difference between these badges though is that the older badge would have been all one colour. There are no defining bars between the letters and the surround, and enamel cannot be applied in varying colours without divisions between. The colours would just run.

[nikbj68]

Thanks REV. Wouldn`t it look lovely with a yellow or golden enamel, like the one in Crock`s example: