What is a real AC?

[Emmanueld]

In view of all the want to be Cobras, Shelby continuation cars, MKIV etc. What is a real AC? To me a genuine AC is a car that was build by Derek Hurlock at the Thames Ditton factory, the last of it being the ME3000 and that's it! Now, a lot of credit should be given to Brian Angliss for trying is best to resurrect the Make. The MKIV and the new AC Ace where a sincere try to resurrect the brand. Whether we want it or not, the spirit and the know how are gone. It's like with Bugatti, is the current car a real Bugatti? Hardly.
   
   Owners of original AC cars please provide your thoughts on the matter.

[SB7019]

Emmanuel.
   
   It seems that you are, yet again, trying to generate some "dialogue" and, yet again, are showing a limited knowledge of the facts.   I suspect that the owners of cars that were built in the 50 years or so prior to Derek Hurlock's involvement in the business would be surprised to know that they do not have not real or original AC's!!

[Chafford]

Any car built by the AC Car Company or licensed by the AC Car Company to carry the AC trademark.
   
   So that includes the ME3000s built by AC (Scotland),the Autokraft(later AC)Mk IV Cobra,the 90s Brooklands Ace and the hardtop version the Aceca,the CRS, the Superblower, the 289 and 427 continuation cars and the current Mk V. The Kimber Ace will also be a real 'AC' as it will carry the AC trademark.

[Emmanueld]

Bugatti carries the Bugatti trademark, does not make it a real Bugatti does it? and yes of course the pre-Hurlock cars were ACs', they were built since 1911 at the Thames Ditton factory. Also since the Hurlock brothers bought the factory in 1930 and John Weller created Auto Carrier in 1903, the Weller period lasted 27 years.

[SB7019]

Emmanuel.  It looks as if you've been off to Wikipedia for crash course in knowledge again.  Derek Hurlock (who you specifically mentioned as the only builder of genuine AC's) did not start with the company until the 1950's.  Weller (and Portwine)  founded the company in 1901 not 1903.  That's why the 100th  anniversary was celebrated at the Chelsea Hospital in 2001.  They left it in 1922 making 22 not 27 year.    Your spurious arguments would have much more credibility if you took the trouble to do better research on the facts.

[Chafford]

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   
Any car built by the AC Car Company or licensed by the AC Car Company to carry the AC trademark.
   
   So that includes the ME3000s built by AC (Scotland),the Autokraft  (later AC) Mk IV Cobra, the 90s Brooklands Ace and the hardtop version the Aceca, the CRS, the Superblower, the 289 and 427 continuation cars and the current Mk V.

   
   Anyone owning one of the above would regard their car as a real AC.

[Emmanueld]

quote:Originally posted by SB7019
   
Emmanuel.  It looks as if you've been off to Wikipedia for crash course in knowledge again.  Derek Hurlock (who you specifically mentioned as the only builder of genuine AC's) did not start with the company until the 1950's.  Weller (and Portwine)  founded the company in 1901 not 1903.  That's why the 100th  anniversary was celebrated at the Chelsea Hospital in 2001.  They left it in 1922 making 22 not 27 year.    Your spurious arguments would have much more credibility if you took the trouble to do better research on the facts.
   

   
   SB7019,
   
   You may be right about the creation of the company in 1901 (I do not know the date of incorporation). However, the first AC automobile was presented at the Crystal Palace motor show in 1903; it was a 20HP touring car and was displayed under the Weller name. However, Portwine thought the car would be too expensive to produce and encouraged Weller to design and produce a little delivery 3 wheeler. Weller did so, called it the AUTO-CARRIER and started production in 1904. The vehicle caught on quickly and was a financial success. In 1907 a passenger version appeared, it was called the Auto-Carrier Sociable. It had a seat in place of the cargo box.
   In 1911 the company moved from South London to Thames Ditton.
   The first 4-wheeler was produced in 1913; it was a sporty little 2-seater with a gearbox on the back axle. Only a few were produced and production was interrupted by WW1.
   After the war, John Weller started on the design of a new 6 cylinder motor. The first versions were running by 1919. Incidentally, the Weller motor would be produced until 1963; it is probably the second longest running production motor in history after the VW boxer.
   In 1921, Selwyn Francis Edge bought shares of the company and was appointed governing director. He did not get along with Weller and Portwine who resigned less than a year later. Under his direction the firm was not able to compete effectively and struggled until 1930.
   In 1930, AC was sold by the official receiver. William and Charles Hurlock, who owned car dealerships and a trucking business bought the company, it has been said that they did not want to go into automobile manufacturing but wanted additional warehouse space for their goods. Bowing to the demands of AC owners for parts and service, the Hurlock's went into production of a new car in 1932.
   By 1933 AC was back at the London Motor show after a 4 year gap.
   In 1953 AC started production of the AC ACE based on a chassis designed by John Tojeiro.
   The Hurlock family was in control of AC and of the old factory at Thames Ditton until 1983.
   
   In 1982 Brian Angliss who was running Autocraft, a Cobra restoration shop, part supplier and replica manufacturer, acquired most of the tooling from Thames Ditton and eventually the right to use the AC name.
   He created the MKIV; the car had US-5 mph bumpers, a federalized motor, and a larger interior with modern switchgear. About 480 cars were produced in his factory at Brooklands. He also produced a lightweight model which is more in tune with the original Cobra spirit but cannot be imported to the US due to Federal regulations.
   Angliss had foresight and was looking for a new car to replace the MKIV. At the 1993 Motor Show, he introduced a new vehicle that he named the AC Ace. It was a nice automobile with a stainless steel chassis and a nice aluminum body.
   It was expensive to build and sales never really materialized. In March of 1996, the company went into receivership and was eventually sold to Alan Lubinsky in December 1996.
   
   Main source: AC Heritage by Simon Taylor & Peter Burns
   
   This is the history of the name AC, and I believe it is accurate. I would like to point out that the actual history of the original AC company stops after the Hurlocks, since Angliss did not even buy the assets of the company but merely some of the AC tooling and later the right to use the name AC. Interestingly, all the cars produced before 1982 are indeed replicas since Angliss only acquired the use the name at that time.
   
   SB7019, Wikipedia being user maintained is not always accurate! People have a tendency to confuse their desires for reality, especially in "Cobraland".
   
   If anybody has more accurate information on the history, I would love to discuss!
   
   Emmanuel

[jbottini]

Emmanueld. TAKE IT TO CLUB COBRA!! This site works well for those of us with AC built, AC lisenced, old and new. You are becoming obnoxious and are wasting a lot of peoples time. Yes I'm biased as a MKIV owner and past owner of a CSX car...say what you want, you love to argue..not all share your penchant for it.

[Mark IV]

Originally posted by Emmanueld
   

Originally posted by SB7019
   
In 1982 Brian Angliss who was running Autocraft
   /quote]
   AutoKraft.....
   
   I knew Brian Angliss, and you Sir, are NO Brian Angliss! (apoligies to Sen. Lieberman)[:D]
   
   Rick

[Jan_AC_MKIV_1227]

I'm officially annoyed, what is this guy's agenda,? what rock was overturned...

[Emmanueld]

quote:Originally posted by jbottini
   
Emmanueld. TAKE IT TO CLUB COBRA!! This site works well for those of us with AC built, AC lisenced, old and new. You are becoming obnoxious and are wasting a lot of peoples time. Yes I'm biased as a MKIV owner and past owner of a CSX car...say what you want, you love to argue..not all share your penchant for it.
   

   
   Sir,
   You forget that I also own an AC built CFX car and that this is not the forum for AK vehicles. [;)]
   Emmanuel

[Chafford]

Emmanueld
   
   Write out 100 times:
   
   The Mk IV is a real AC

[hawk289]

I hate this thread, in my view anything that had the AC badge [legally] is an AC. Also I really do not care, what I like is the history and the cars. I look at the design of my Ace / Aceca and think for the 50's this was brilliant! What is the big hang-up on the AC brand, I do not care if it is a replica or real?
   
   Can we get back to talking about cars, etc?
   
   John.

[AK1440]

Methinks Emmanueld has a lot of time on his hands.[:D]

[SB7019]

Emmanuel.
   
   Having taken the trouble to check the facts maybe you would like to re-eaxmine your previous posts to see the errors you made regarding Derek Hurlock's and the Weller's tenures?
   
   
   Moving on to your latest post:-
   
   You have extensively paraphrased from a book that, I suspect, most members already own and yet still manage to draw erroneous conclusions once you revert to your own thoughts.
   
   The the purchase of rights to a name and to tooling etc.does constitute the purchasing of assets, though not neccesarily all assets.  What Angliss did not do was to purchase the shares of the company as this would involve also taking on the liabilities.  If you follow your logic then the company ceased to exist when it was liquidated in 1930.
   
   You state that all Angliss cars produced before 1982 are replicas.  What evidence do you have that any were?