How many 428 Frua left?

[Englishman]

My Frua CF64 Fastback is currenyly udergoing restoration here in Australia, not without a few problems I hasten to add.
   
   Peter

[Emmanueld]

What type of problem if I may ask? Maybe I can help, if you need any kind of photo or parts. Let me know!
   
   Emmanuel

[Englishman]

Emmanuel
   
   Thank you for the offer, I may well prevail on you for information on your upgraded suspension.
   
   I have yet to drive my car as I bought it in bits from Terry Healy in Brisbane who in turn bought it from a guy in Vancouver, again in bits.
   
   The engine has been rebuilt with alloy heads and I want to put headers on instead of the cast iron manifolds. I do have concerns about the overheating and heat generally ( I did visit with Andy S during a visit to the UK last year )
   
   The rust worm has visited the car but only cosmetically.
   
   I am thinking of having a second bonnett/hood made with louvres in it that can be interchanged with the original, we are inserting an aluminium fan assisted radiator.
   
   I do not intend to race the car but just use it as a fun weekender, I have my Harley for all the thrills I need.

[Emmanueld]

quote:Originally posted by Englishman
   
Emmanuel
   
   Thank you for the offer, I may well prevail on you for information on your upgraded suspension.
   
   I have yet to drive my car as I bought it in bits from Terry Healy in Brisbane who in turn bought it from a guy in Vancouver, again in bits.
   
   The engine has been rebuilt with alloy heads and I want to put headers on instead of the cast iron manifolds. I do have concerns about the overheating and heat generally ( I did visit with Andy S during a visit to the UK last year )
   
   The rust worm has visited the car but only cosmetically.
   
   I am thinking of having a second bonnett/hood made with louvres in it that can be interchanged with the original, we are inserting an aluminium fan assisted radiator.
   
   I do not intend to race the car but just use it as a fun weekender, I have my Harley for all the thrills I need.
   

   If you look at the photo of my car's engine bay, I have installed headers, Edelbrock aluminum heads, a Ford Aluminum Police Interceptor intake manifold (same as the 428 Cobra Jet Manifold but made of Aluminum). Incidentally, it's the lightest and best performing intake that will fit under the hood of the Frua and it is original Ford! You can see them on E-bay but the prices have come up big time since they are correct on the Mustang Shelby GT 500. The air filter is a big block Chevelle/ Corvette piece from the late 60s'; it has a large opening and very low profile. The headers are basic Sanderson shorties modified to fit the very tight space in the engine room and ceramic coated inside and out. The carburetor is a 735 Holley with vacuum secondary off a Shelby GT500, the car came with a crummy emission autolite carburetor. Air pump and air injectors were removed some time ago. With these modifications, the engine temperature is steady at 80 Degrees/c all day long.
   Modifications on the suspensions so far are Kirkham adjustable rear upper control arms and Edelbrock Cobra 427 shock absorbers with 400Lbs spring up front and 600Lbs rear. The car was raised 1 inch up front and 11/2 inch rear. Next, I will install a front anti sway bar, probably 3 quarter inch which is what come stock on the Kirkham 427. The handling is now very good and the car is a pleasure to drive fast.
   
   Emmanuel
   
   
   

[Jappo]

I want to buy the Hurst Park car, but wasn't thinking 60K.  Are these cars usable.  I've heard that they get so hot they are unusable, is this true?  Are there mods that can be done to cool them down, do they have air con, or can it be retro fitted?
   
   Thanks for any help.

[Emmanueld]

quote:Originally posted by Jappo
   
I want to buy the Hurst Park car, but wasn't thinking 60K.  Are these cars usable.  I've heard that they get so hot they are unusable, is this true?  Are there mods that can be done to cool them down, do they have air con, or can it be retro fitted?
   
   Thanks for any help.
   

   
   The AC 428 is a great car, it has some flaws, but nothing that can be overcome! The main one is the heat in the cabin, the second one is corrosion, the third one is the suspension settings. When you have addressed these, you will have one of the most exiting car of the 60s'. Great power and handling, very good brakes, an "exotic" chassis, an automobile which is very reliable and affordable to maintain because of its readily available mechanical spares and on top of the list, one of the rarest vehicle on the planet!
   
   I am in the process of addressing "the heat in the cabin" part, I had insulated some of the firewall before but not enough and the heat was still too much!(Remember, Southern California is my home and we have deserts) Also the corrosion perforation did not help. We are now insulating the firewall completely inside and out (also the part that is in the fender well has to be done as well) , making sure almost no air can penetrate the cabin from the engine bay, on the outside, we are applying aircraft firewall insulation, on the inside, the whole cabin tar like sound deadening has been removed and will be replaced by Dynamat Extreme. //www.dynamat.com  This material is great and when applied correctly will virtually eliminate heat and noise. Also, under the carpets, we also will install Koolmat which is a floor insulation used on aircrafts //www.koolmat.com. Later I plan to do some modifications to the hood trying not to disfigure it too much! This should take care of the problem! We will see! My advice is: Buy the car if its nice before prices go up too much!
   
   I almost forgot, a manual transmission should reduce the heat quite a bit around the tunnel as well! Also the two large air ducks which travel inside the hood on the earlier cars should be relocated to the inner fender like on the later cars and insulated, otherwise, the air coming form the front is superheated and released inside the cabin like a heater!
   
   One of these days some famous car enthusiast like Jay Leno will buy one of these cars and prices will skyrocket! Even at 60K pounds, these  cars are a real bargain when one considers the performance, the breed and the chassis. Have you priced a Mustang Shelby GT 500 lately? and it is not even 1/2 the car the Frua is! Cheap mustang suspension, leaf springs, solid rear axle, drum brakes, all vinyl and plastic inside, etc. [;)]
   
   Emmanuel

[Jappo]

quote:Originally posted by Emmanueld
   

quote:Originally posted by Jappo
   
I want to buy the Hurst Park car, but wasn't thinking 60K.  Are these cars usable.  I've heard that they get so hot they are unusable, is this true?  Are there mods that can be done to cool them down, do they have air con, or can it be retro fitted?
   
   Thanks for any help.
   

   
   The AC 428 is a great car, it has some flaws, but nothing that can be overcome! The main one is the heat in the cabin, the second one is corrosion, the third one is the suspension settings. When you have addressed these, you will have one of the most exiting car of the 60s'. Great power and handling, very good brakes, an "exotic" chassis, an automobile which is very reliable and affordable to maintain because of its readily available mechanical spares and on top of the list, one of the rarest vehicle on the planet!
   
   I am in the process of addressing "the heat in the cabin" part, I had insulated some of the firewall before but not enough and the heat was still too much!(Remember, Southern California is my home and we have deserts) Also the corrosion perforation did not help. We are now insulating the firewall completely inside and out (also the part that is in the fender well has to be done as well) , making sure almost no air can penetrate the cabin from the engine bay, on the outside, we are applying aircraft firewall insulation, on the inside, the whole cabin tar like sound deadening has been removed and will be replaced by Dynamat Extreme. //www.dynamat.com  This material is great and when applied correctly will virtually eliminate heat and noise. Also, under the carpets, we also will install Koolmat which is a floor insulation used on aircrafts //www.koolmat.com. Later I plan to do some modifications to the hood trying not to disfigure it too much! This should take care of the problem! We will see! My advice is: Buy the car if its nice before prices go up too much!
   
   I almost forgot, a manual transmission should reduce the heat quite a bit around the tunnel as well! Also the two large air ducks which travel inside the hood on the earlier cars should be relocated to the inner fender like on the later cars and insulated, otherwise, the air coming form the front is superheated and released inside the cabin like a heater!
   
   One of these days some famous car enthusiast like Jay Leno will buy one of these cars and prices will skyrocket! Even at 60K pounds, these  cars are a real bargain when one considers the performance, the breed and the chassis. Have you priced a Mustang Shelby GT 500 lately? and it is not even 1/2 the car the Frua is! Cheap mustang suspension, leaf springs, solid rear axle, drum brakes, all vinyl and plastic inside, etc. [;)]
   
   Emmanuel
   

   
   Good stuff Emmanuel - sounds like a lot of work though!  Wonder how much has been done to the HurstPark car - I will go see it tomorrow.
   
   Anyone ever fitted air con?

[Emmanueld]

I have seen a photo of a Frua roadster on a dealer website with the hood open, it had a little Sanyo air conditioning compressor installed! The coolant expansion tank had been replaced by a shortened Ford Galaxy one like on the Cobra MKIII and the alternator had been relocated as well. Not a big deal. Also there is room under the dashboard to replace the heater box by one of those used on Hot Rods. I will see later on. My friend Jeffrey wants to do that as well!
   
   Emmanuel

[Classicus]

Hi just joined :-)
   
   Though quite clueless mechanically (!) I’ve always liked the 428, also if anyone can speak German, found a few interesting looking sites on the net, the first one of which hopefully might help towards working out how many are left….?
   
   Hope so and that the links all work !
   
   1. http://www.pietro-frua.de/1965_ac.htm
   
   Prototype drawings and history, also pics of 23 cars and their individual CF numbers at the bottom.
   
   2. http://www.pietro-frua.de/vita.htm
   
   Pietro Frua’s career and pics.
   
   3. http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1468631066038203561oTaRhl
   
   4.
   
   5.
   
   Nos. 4 and 5 are pics of a lightweight coupe at Goodwood in 2005.
   
   6. http://www.pietro-frua.de/1965_ac01.htm
   
   CF1 - LPH 800 D
   
   7. http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_13910-AC-428-Spider-1966.html?PHPSESSID=827fadcd16ae7ec6b48ba27c82fad7e0
   
   The Internet Movie Cars Database: The Avengers car. Also check out the interesting comments by Marsh (an AC member ?) at the bottom of “Comments” !
   
   8. http://www.auto-museum.net/vehicule/galerie-634-AC+428+Frua+1966+1973.html
   
   More 428 pics at bottom.
   
   I think I might still have one or two scannable bits lying around as well if anyone’s interested ?
   
   Edit:
   * In case the Goodwood pics are a problem they're also on :
   http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1468631066038203561oTaRhl
   
   And....
   
   http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1468626712038203561iWUxoA

[nikbj68]

quote:Originally posted by Classicus
   
Hi just joined :-)
   
   ....I think I might still have one or two scannable bits lying around as well if anyone`s interested ?
   
   

   Welcome aboard, Classicus, what a comprehensive first post! Almost as informative as the 'Marsh'post on IMCDB!!!
   I think I can speak for all here when I say yes please, show us what you`ve got!
   
   You can translate the FRUA pages with a little button at the top right of the pages, but it`s a little...erm...off...in places!

[Classicus]

Thanks nikbj68 [:)]
   
   Interesting English as you say - closely similar to early Japanese car manuals !
   
   Can’t remember exactly when I saw my first 428, sometime around ’75 or so possibly, but it was a convertible with the roof down parked just off Oxford Circus and that was it ! I was hooked and although I’m only an ordinary enthusiast I’ve followed their progress whenever I could ever since. Then I think I saw a new one for sale in HR Owens (circular plate glass covered) showroom around Chelsea, so I immediately went in and got their AC brochure which I’ve still got today, showing the green 428 down by the Thames near Chertsey.
   
   Hope it’s not too boring but I’ve included one or two early personal experiences, plus a few more bookmarked websites....
   
   1. http://www.thewhothismonth.com/
   
   â€œThe Who” website - scroll down to March 1972. A snippet about Keith Moon’s write off. Stoned rock star or not how on earth did he drive as far as Staines in the first place !
   
   2. http://www.automobilrevue.ch/artikel_15216.html
   
   In German but some good general interior pics at the bottom.
   
   3. http://www.fotolibra.com/gallery/image/?s=5556717&sid=0
   
   CF 57 plus a few details.
   
   4. http://theavengers.tv/forever/cars-2.htm
   
   Another view of the Avenger car near the bottom.
   
   5. http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/127259,11868,0,0/photo.aspx
   
   6. An American registered softtop â€" scroll to bottom of page for more pics.
   
   http://www.marque.com.au/gallery/AC/pages/AC_012%20(1967%20428%20Fastback.htm
   
   (You’ll have to cut and paste this URL as it’s not taking it direct.)
   
   Although unfortunately I’ve never owned a 428, I did manage to visit the Thames Ditton factory just the once and this picture does look very much like the same small showroom and forecourt at the front of the factory itself. Either way I clearly remember those funny small blue invalid (Ministry of Health ?) 3 wheeler carriages they made (what happened to them all ?) that were parked everywhere just inside the entrance to be serviced or whatever, and clearly remember then seeing a dark coloured fastback 428 amongst them ! Talk about contrasts ! I think perhaps there was a Greyhound and a vague memory of a Buckland or something beside it, plus several other presumably customer’s cars all in for a service as well. It was just like so many other very ordinary High Street garages at the time.
   
   Although as I said I’m most definitely not mechanically minded or that interested (too many scars to prove it !), I do remember other small silly things from that visit ! Thinking for example as I peered into the dark interior full of period atmosphere and bustling activity, how the far windows were those small long rectagular cream coloured shape ones typical of so many pre and postwar family owned garages. Or inconsequential things like turning round and seeing a very ordinary High St. scene and a woman parking her dark pram and going into the grocers ! It was pure late 50’s suburbia the same as many early Norman Wisdom or “Carry On” films.
   
   I also read a story somewhere recently that Carroll Shelby just turned up one day in a black taxi, hopefully wearing a stetson, and apparently saying to the first people he met “Hi y’all ! I’m Carroll Shelby.” I don’t know how true that is but in quiet South London suburbia with bellowing Cobras and Le Mans not that far ahead… It really beats the imagination nowadays ![:)]
   
   7. http://autowp.ru/picture/115970
   
   On the one occasion I visited Summer Road (’84/ ‘85 or so ?) I’m sure I saw this same red car parked right at the far back. I remember asking Keith (?) Judd about it as it was so different with the pop-up headlights. He said it was for sale at £20k which in fact was one heck of a lot money then and way out of my reach, especially when you think that 428 fastbacks were going for about £8000 or so ? I believe this car was the last 428 they produced too ? I did see Derek Hurlock in the background briefly as well but unfortunately he was far too busy. Finally, and I think it might have been Keith Judd who said that one  of the reasons they stopped production of the 428 was because they would never pass the official crash test ?
   
   And while I think of it too I once visited an AC event at around the same time and there was a guy there who’d brought along what he said was the very first prototype. Very scruffy and tired it looked a bit like a softtop Scimitar I thought, but I clearly remember he was very chuffed with it !
   
   Have a rummage round later....[:)]
   
   Edited
   
   Just had a closer look in the Movie Car website under AC generally and found this little interesting lot [:)]
   
   http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-AC.html

[Stephan]

CF 18 is now combined with an AC Aceca body from AE 558, it was offered last October in Hertfordshire for 35000 pounds.
   
   This was the ad:
   This well known car features a 302 Boss Mustang engine in an independently suspended AC chassis. This is effectively a Mk3 Cobra with a roof, and it delivers the driver's reward that you would expect from such a combination.
   The car has been built to a very professional standard in the 1980s by a Swiss collector, Verner Oswald, using Aceca body number 558, and AC 428 chassis CF 18. The attention to detail is very good with features such as aeroquip hoses throughout, competition water piping, on board fire extinguisher.
   The car is in excellent mechanical order. The suspension has been completely rebuilt, shock absorbers reconditioned and front anti roll bar fitted (following the settings from a competition Mk 3 Cobra) in the last year.
   The engine is fresh and has only covered 1,000 miles since being run in. The engine builders expect it to be producing 400bhp+. It has Eagle steel crankshaft, Childs and Albert reduced radius big and main bearings, H beam magnafluxed con rods, +.030 boss pistons and more.
   
   I have some pics if anyone is interested.

[Classicus]

Does anyone have any current info about fastback DLX 55J before I post some pics ? No idea of cf number.

[Classicus]

I've just realised that of the 22 (CF identified) 428's pictured on the German Frua website, by the looks of it 21 are convertibles.
   
   CF 65 which is pictured in the CF 79 panel being the sole fastback.... ! [:0]
   
   http://www.pietro-frua.de/1965_ac.htm

[Emmanueld]

quote:Originally posted by Stephan
   
CF 18 is now combined with an AC Aceca body from AE 558, it was offered last October in Hertfordshire for 35000 pounds.
   
   This was the ad:
   This well known car features a 302 Boss Mustang engine in an independently suspended AC chassis. This is effectively a Mk3 Cobra with a roof, and it delivers the driver's reward that you would expect from such a combination.
   The car has been built to a very professional standard in the 1980s by a Swiss collector, Verner Oswald, using Aceca body number 558, and AC 428 chassis CF 18. The attention to detail is very good with features such as aeroquip hoses throughout, competition water piping, on board fire extinguisher.
   The car is in excellent mechanical order. The suspension has been completely rebuilt, shock absorbers reconditioned and front anti roll bar fitted (following the settings from a competition Mk 3 Cobra) in the last year.
   The engine is fresh and has only covered 1,000 miles since being run in. The engine builders expect it to be producing 400bhp+. It has Eagle steel crankshaft, Childs and Albert reduced radius big and main bearings, H beam magnafluxed con rods, +.030 boss pistons and more.
   
   I have some pics if anyone is interested.
   
   

   
   I would love to see that! Please post or E-mal pics at your convenience! Regards, Emmanuel