AC Ace Brooklands 1995 - electric hood problem

[Max Allan]

Patrick, are you sure you're checking the "live" side of the fuse.  I've never checked voltage at ecu side of fuse, but ecu works on 5v so guess its possible you're measuring leakage across ecu from hydraulic side of mechanism fed via 30 amp fuse.

[Max Allan]

As there are other copies of the CD in circulation (including mine because my partner assures me I did lend it out) perhaps they could assist Patrick by sketching the hood circuitry, scan/take photo and post diagram here.

[AcemanToo]

Hi Max.
   The wire to the 3 amp fuse is taken from the +ve post of the battery. The wire from the other side of the fuse disappears behind the fuel tank. Should I be measuring the voltage by connecting this second wire through the meter to earth? Car wiring is a bit of a mystery to me so I need all the help I can get. I did rewire a Daimler 420 Sovereign some 16 years ago and everything has worked faultlessly ever since, but I did have a full wiring diagram available![^]
   Unfortunately, it's pouring with rain and the car is in an outside Carcoon so it could be a day or so before I get the chance to look at things again. I've found a new wiper switch (Granada Mk 3) on eBay so will replace the existing (possibly) faulty one which will hopefully remove one problem from the mix! That CD sounds a useful addition to the arsenal - count me in when it becomes available; please let me know payment details!
   
   
   
   

quote:Originally posted by Max Allan
   
Patrick, are you sure you're checking the "live" side of the fuse.  I've never checked voltage at ecu side of fuse, but ecu works on 5v so guess its possible you're measuring leakage across ecu from hydraulic side of mechanism fed via 30 amp fuse.
   

[Max Allan]

As a point of interest, the red light that comes on when hood is in operation is not indicator of voltage to the circuit, but indicates the pressure release solenoid is energised closed and hydraulic system pressurised. The solenoid is de-energised  by micro switch attached to hood cover latching mechanism (circuit is earthed when latch locks closed). Solenoid is also de-energised when ignition is switched off.
   
   The micro switch has two sets of contacts. When the rocker switch is set to raise hood (pushed in at the top) electric actuator releases hood cover latch and m/s changes solenoid circuit from"earth"connection to "open" circuit thus closing solenoid valve and permitting pump to pressurise system. At the same time, the second pair of m/s contacts close completing a second circuit to earth. This circuit energises the relay that sets in motion the "lift" operation.
   
   Hope this makes some kind of sense to those interested.

[AcemanToo]

Oh! Right then........

[Max Allan]

Patrick - it can get difficult trying to explain things you can try, so sent you an email with my number. One option is to try parially lifting hood manually and seeing if hydraulics then work.

[AcemanToo]

In the goodness knows how many years I've owned this beast, the hood has sometimes co-operated, sometimes not. I've tried almost every position of the hood and the sequence of events, sometimes with success, sometimes not. This time, nothing moves, buzzes, pumps, clicks, hisses or anything of note. Rather like the Monty Python dead parrot sketch in fact. I suspect that some wiring has become dislodged behind the dash, a power feed of some sort. At the moment, I've got the centre panel out and also the screws at either end of the dash. I can't find the remaining fixing points to get fully behind the dash though. Flexing the dash allows a certain amount of access but I'm nervous that something might just go 'bang' under the stress. On top of all the current problems, the heating is grossly over enthusiastic and the clutch judders like nothing on earth on take off. Still love the car though, apart from the wet carpets and water leaks that is.......

[Max Allan]

Sorry Patrick – I didn't mean to appear patronising, but the majority of folk don't seem have much idea how to go about nursing defunct mechanics back to life.
   
   In the light of your problems I tried the hood on my own car yesterday for the first time in many months – low and behold it didn't work.[:0] Only when I raised the cover manually did it function albeit in rather erratic manner. (It is certainly true the hood should only be operated using a fully charged battery or with the engine running, otherwise it's liable to tying itself in knots. However, In my case, operating the hood with engine running I didn't hear the hydraulics continue straining to close the cover when already closed until a "bang" when couple of hinge screws pull out of the cover.[:(!]) However, operating the lift switch I did notice a "click" each time from behind the dash, so suspect there's another relay lurking in there somewhere controlling hood electrics. But it is difficult to advise where to look next without the wiring diagram. I've been promised a replacement for the CD I lent out (never returned), but wait with baited breath for it's arrival! In the meantime, shame no one has sketched the wiring diagram and posted it on the forum.
   
   Regards voltages at fuses, I read 12v both ends of 5 amp fuse, which is a bit of a nonsense, so am inclined to disregard the discrepancy you observed. If it's of any help, later in the week I'll get someone to flick the operating switch while I attempt and identify which wire from switch connects to which terminal on which relay in boot. If you can eliminate the switch as culprit it will save pulling the dash out unnecessarily, although I'd be interested to know myself how it's held in. (Intending to dump the auto box currently fitted, I imported a 6-speed Tremac, but have been partially put off fitting it, by the prospect of removing the dash to get at gear select mechanism.)
   
   Over enthusiastic heater – luck you! Whether hot air or air con cold - never get much of either out of mine.

[AcemanToo]

Hi Max! You're not patronising at all my good friend! It's just that my electrical skills are struggling at the best of times! I'm OK if I can see the bits and pieces, or hear them doing something - it all gets tricky when I don't know where most of the bits are...... Many thanks for sending me your phone number. I'm not sure when the best time is to contact you but I suspect evening time might be the most convenient for you. Anyway, I look forward to talking the electrics through with you - hopefully we'll both end up with a working hood!
   
   
   

quote:Originally posted by Max Allan
   
Sorry Patrick – I didn't mean to appear patronising, but the majority of folk don't seem have much idea how to go about nursing defunct mechanics back to life.
   
   In the light of your problems I tried the hood on my own car yesterday for the first time in many months – low and behold it didn't work.[:0] Only when I raised the cover manually did it function albeit in rather erratic manner. (It is certainly true the hood should only be operated using a fully charged battery or with the engine running, otherwise it's liable to tying itself in knots. However, In my case, operating the hood with engine running I didn't hear the hydraulics continue straining to close the cover when already closed until a "bang" when couple of hinge screws pull out of the cover.[:(!]) However, operating the lift switch I did notice a "click" each time from behind the dash, so suspect there's another relay lurking in there somewhere controlling hood electrics. But it is difficult to advise where to look next without the wiring diagram. I've been promised a replacement for the CD I lent out (never returned), but wait with baited breath for it's arrival! In the meantime, shame no one has sketched the wiring diagram and posted it on the forum.
   
   Regards voltages at fuses, I read 12v both ends of 5 amp fuse, which is a bit of a nonsense, so am inclined to disregard the discrepancy you observed. If it's of any help, later in the week I'll get someone to flick the operating switch while I attempt and identify which wire from switch connects to which terminal on which relay in boot. If you can eliminate the switch as culprit it will save pulling the dash out unnecessarily, although I'd be interested to know myself how it's held in. (Intending to dump the auto box currently fitted, I imported a 6-speed Tremac, but have been partially put off fitting it, by the prospect of removing the dash to get at gear select mechanism.)
   
   Over enthusiastic heater – luck you! Whether hot air or air con cold - never get much of either out of mine.
   

[AcemanToo]

The replacement Mk 3 Granada wiper switch arrived today, but, the intermittent setting on the wipers still doesn't work. Oh well, back to the drawing board......
   Have also just obtained a Peugeot 306 Haynes manual from ebay in the hope that there might be some useful information regarding the hood workings. Hope springs eternal as someone once said......

[AcemanToo]

Turns out it wasn't the switch but rather the relay that controls the intermittent operation of the wipers. Got one from a scrapyard for £15  and it's done the trick! I'm now going to try substituting the relay in the driver's door to see if that has any effect on the hood operation....that is, if I can find another relay that's the same....
   By the way, did anyone manage to turn up with a copy of the elusive wiring CD?

[Max Allan]

Pat – I have the wiring diagram here waiting to send, but I've not received the email from you with your postal address, even though I sent you an email via the forum with my new address. If you still want the diagram please send your postal address to: maxwellbryn@hotmail.co.uk
   Max

[AcemanToo]

Hi Max,
   
   I sent the details a while ago and re-sent them about two weeks ago. Did you receive the email? I'll give you a call this evening to check on progress!
   
   Regards,
   Patrick.
   
   

quote:Originally posted by Max Allan
   
Pat – I have the wiring diagram here waiting to send, but I've not received the email from you with your postal address, even though I sent you an email via the forum with my new address. If you still want the diagram please send your postal address to: maxwellbryn@hotmail.co.uk
   Max
   

[Max Allan]

Not received anything Pat. Assummed you no longer wanted diagram plus other info.

[Max Allan]

Hi Patrick. Did you sort your non-functioning hood? (With or without assistance of the pretty useless wiring diagram I supplied.) [V]
   
   Been have proplems with my own hood - it would part-lift then collapse back down. Topping up oil level (Peugeot Pt No 9734.NO) solved that, but operation remains unreliable - works perfectly sometimes, but on others either refuses to function or gets tied up in knots part way through cycle. [:(!]