'Cobra' 289 Mk III AE 1138 YXN 506

[Chafford]

Is this car a Cobra or an Ace?
   
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twKXjrOGKrk

[rstainer]

The cars history is fully described in the ACOC Ace Register (http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/members area/models/ace/AceRegister_2010_12.pdf). The the ACOC registers make clear, the car is neither a 'Cobra' nor a 'Cobra Replica'; it is a modified Ace.
   
   Please post any further enquiry to the Ace, Aceca and Greyhound forum.

[Chafford]

I've had a look at the register, but in my opinion, the only 'Ace' in this car is its 1960 chassis number and title.  The car now has a Cobra body shell and chassis, a 289 engine with top loader transmission and Cobra wheels and was built by AC in 1966 at Thames Ditton. It's a Thames Ditton Cobra and should be classified as such.

[Gus Meyjes]

Hmmm, interesting example of fuzzy logic, murky waters and personal preference definitions...

[Chafford]

I suppose the question is whether a chassis plate defines the identity of a car. If it looks like a Cobra and barks like a Cobra it must be an .... Ace??

[A-Snake]

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   
I've had a look at the register, but in my opinion, the only 'Ace' in this car is its 1960 chassis number and title.  The car now has a Cobra body shell and chassis, a 289 engine with top loader transmission and Cobra wheels and was built by AC in 1966 at Thames Ditton. It's a Thames Ditton Cobra and should be classified as such.
   

   
   So based on this skewed logic, a Sunbeam Alpine can be morphed into a legitimate Sunbeam Tiger by anyone by changing the running gear, moving the battery, changing emblems and a few other sundry items?
   
   Those are called 'Algers'. I call them fakes.

[Gus Meyjes]

Not just anybody... AC, at the Thames Ditton factory...that's why my reply was "fuzzy logic". Really, would that be a fake also? This case is good evidence of how narrow minded this "real or not" conversation really can be...

[Chafford]

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   
I've had a look at the register, but in my opinion, the only 'Ace' in this car is its 1960 chassis number and title.  The car now has a Cobra body shell and chassis, a 289 engine with top loader transmission and Cobra wheels and was built by AC in 1966 at Thames Ditton. It's a Thames Ditton Cobra and should be classified as such.
   

   
   Well having done some further research, I had better correct my earlier posts [B)] (based on a different source). The components for the MkIII chassis were supplied by AC and the bodywork was reworked as a MkIII from the original car. But in its current form, very much a Cobra rather than an Ace and a very nice car!
   
   http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/14261/lot/247/#

[nikbj68]

IT is, however, still a re-worked Ace, with an Ace chassis number, as it was never built (and recorded in the production register with the appropriate COB, COX or CSX number) as a Cobra.
   Start calling it a Cobra and that will be reflected in the value. Like the Ace-that-was-an-Aceca issue, which is still recorded as an Aceca, just because it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck, it could still be a goose.  In my humble opinion. [;)]

[Gus Meyjes]

well taken and agreed, but, not a "fake", at least I would not call it that. I'd say that's a term for a Kirkham or Dax. Although I prefer the term "replica" better....It's a little kinder...

[Emmanueld]

In my humble opinion, unless the conversion was documented at the factory, this car is a reproduction. If AC did it, there was an invoice at the very least. It's too easy to get a MKIII chassis these days. Also the motor has a lot of modern bits like the Japanese nippondenso  alternator and the horrible billet expansion box. It's a nice looking car nevertheless, but a real Cobra or Ace it is probably not. There is a guy over here who owns an Ace in crates and has mounted the chassis plate to his Kirkham. There is another area that is suspicious, the seats. Most reproduction seats have a thick backrest like those in the picture. Original Cobra seats were thin. Ace seats I don't know, please advise.
   
   Gus,  replica is a better term. A fake is a car that pretends to be an original and is not. A Kirkham with a Ace or Cobra chassis number is a fake.
   
   Emmanuel[:)]

[A-Snake]

quote:Originally posted by Emmanueld
   
In my humble opinion, unless the conversion was documented at the factory, this car is a reproduction. If AC did it, there was an invoice at the very least. It's too easy to get a MKIII chassis these days. Also the motor has a lot of modern bits like the Japanese nippondenso  alternator and the horrible billet expansion box. It's a nice looking car nevertheless, but a real Cobra or Ace it is probably not. There is a guy over here who owns an Ace in crates and has mounted the chassis plate to his Kirkham. There is another area that is suspicious, the seats. Most reproduction seats have a thick backrest like those in the picture. Original Cobra seats were thin. Ace seats I don't know, please advise.
   
   
   Gus,  replica is a better term. A fake is a car that pretends to be an original and is not. A Kirkham with a Ace or Cobra chassis number is a fake.
   
   Emmanuel[:)]
   

   
   For the sake of clarity, I called Sunbeam Alpines that are converted and touted as Tigers, fakes. They are typically known as 'Algers'. The JAL # plate etc is affixed to it from a real Tiger.
   
   I was not referring to the modified Ace in question as a fake.

[AC Ace Bristol]

A Snake.
   
   Cobra seats have a curved back rest where as Ace Seats have a flat back.  Not sure but the side support could be different and the number of pleates in the Seat Swab and  Back could differ.
   Refer to Original AC Ace  &  Cobra by Rinsey Mills
   
   I believe you will find most  Cobra Copies ( Fakes / replicas / Continuations .. What Ever !! ) fit modern Cobra style seats as they are readily available and far  cheaper than buying repro seat frames and having them correctly upholstered.
   
   Keith

[TLegate]

If the car in question is not logged or classified in the AC Chassis Register as an AC Cobra (or Ace-Cobra if we're being pedantic) then it is 'something else'. In this case it's an Ace.
   Spent today watching an AC Ace being built into a Cobra in ever single respect - it is still, and will always be, a 'modified AC Ace' as that was it was originally. Might be a 'Cobra' in every single detail, but when it comes to selling time (the crunch) it is what it is - a modified Ace. Any other description can be interpreted as fraud.

[Chafford]

quote:Originally posted by TLegate
   
If the car in question is not logged or classified in the AC Chassis Register as an AC Cobra (or Ace-Cobra if we're being pedantic) then it is 'something else'. In this case it's an Ace.
   Spent today watching an AC Ace being built into a Cobra in ever single respect - it is still, and will always be, a 'modified AC Ace' as that was it was originally. Might be a 'Cobra' in every single detail, but when it comes to selling time (the crunch) it is what it is - a modified Ace. Any other description can be interpreted as fraud.
   

   
   Always a pity when this happens - what's the chassis number of the Ace?