Membership fee payment

[TLegate]

Excluding the information that can be gained from non-members would be counter-productive. And very bad PR. Non-members should surely be encouraged!! How can any organisation grow by telling people to go away and leave us alone....?

[shep]

Amen Amen!  The forum is important for EVERYONE interested in AC cars whatever their creed, members or not. To enjoy the other numerous benefits of ACOC membership, it is perfectly reasonable to pay an annual membership, but the open part of the website is our shop window. By making ourselves open to approach by all, we reinforce the friendly helpful reputation the club has built over the decades. I am all for being inclusive rather than exclusive, and will gladly help anyone who asks. Was it Groucho Marx who said,"I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members!"

[AC Ace Bristol]

quote:Originally posted by shep
   
Amen Amen!  The forum is important for EVERYONE interested in AC cars whatever their creed, members or not. To enjoy the other numerous benefits of ACOC membership, it is perfectly reasonable to pay an annual membership, but the open part of the website is our shop window. By making ourselves open to approach by all, we reinforce the friendly helpful reputation the club has built over the decades. I am all for being inclusive rather than exclusive, and will gladly help anyone who asks. Was it Groucho Marx who said,"I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members!"
   

   
   
   
   Andy
   
   Agree 100%, glad to hear we have someone on the committee who looks long term.
   
   Also agree with  Art ,  Nik and Trevor.
   
   Why The Administrator Should Hi-Jack the  constructive  cosmopolitan thread discussing " ACOC Subscriptions " and insinuate that He and the ACOC Council would even contemplate making The ACOC Forum Members Only is so counter productive and narrowed minded it beggers belief. !!
   
   It goes totaly against the grain and concept of why the ACOC was initiated / formed back in 1949.  A club to assist AC owners and enthusiasts alike, irrespective of Continent and model owned run or just admired. The camaraderie created over the past 60 years is ackowledged and envied by many other marque clubs.
   
   The ACOC  web site was constructed to help said owners and enthusiasts to help maintain their AC's on the road and share experiences and vast knowledge with like minded AC enthusiasts, who have owned or wish to own a AC in the future.
   
   Rectricting the much used and useful ACOC Forum to Members Only is Corporate Suicide,  .[:(]
   
   Andy in your capacity of Vice Chairman maybe you could have a few words with our Administrator and various ACOC Council Members before they drive many genuine ACOC Members and Enthusiasts away, which would be to the detriment of the ACOC.
   
   Keith..

[REV]

I have to say that although I am a member, from my point of view membership is fairly pointless as most of what I learn is from the site. I have made more "Virtual" friends on the site than I have at actual gatherings, but the meetings have been nice to put a face to names.
   
   I do enjoy reading Action magazine and can guarantee that it does get well thumbed, so that I would say is my only real membership benefit. It is well written and edited and a pleasure to pick off the door mat.
   
   Stuck in rural Lincolnshire I struggle to partake in anything much within the club as gatherings are mainly based where the majority live which is in southern England. I do understand that this has to be the case and I'm not whingeing about that, just stating that this is a big issue for those Ooop North or off the beaten track. It's an even bigger one for our foreign brethren.
   
   I have attended the odd event, but because you haven't appeared before its difficult to get very involved. The new members end up as wall flowers talking to each other.  Many of those that are present are old stagers who have known one another for ages and so being on the side lines is inevitable. It's always an impossible situation to overcome and occurs in clubs up and down the country. There is no solution to this. It's also the cause of why events like the Dinner Dance struggle.
   
   So coming to my conclusion, I would say that if you want more members you have to make it affordable and easy to join (PayPal). Coupled with making it beneficial to join.
   
   What can be added to the members package that they couldn't otherwise have access to. Preferably globally?
   
   My thoughts are that video "Know your car" programmes and restoration hints would be so helpful. I am pretty sure that many within the club have massive knowledge of their vehicles that they would share. Certainly the likes of Alan Faulkner-Stevens or Robin Woolmer and many others could make a "How to" video for an hour on their chosen subjects.
   
   Anyone got any unseen racing footage? Libraries of Old AC pictures?  All only available to view (and undownloadable) in the membership area.
   
   Wouldn't it be great rather than begging for help on the forum to be able to view a video of what to do to repair you car? A clutch or a heater problem? Brakes wheel alignment? Fuel sender? The videos will never go out of date either. Always valid, always useful.
   
   It would take time and a cost to amass the videos, but I think that is certainly a membership benefit worth paying for.... And globally useful.
   
   Just a thought.
   
   :)

[J Jones]

I just looked at the PayPal website, and it appears that there is a 3.6% transaction fee, a 2.5% currency conversion fee, plus a small fixed-rate fee per transaction.
   While this does represent approximately a 7% chunk taken out of each (overseas)  transaction, it does seem to make book keeping much easier on the receiving end, and is considerably easier on the purchasers of goods and services.
   
   I got a notice (with my copy of ACtion) that my dues were in arrears. That could be, though I can't really tell, because I have no way to confirm payment at some distance past.
   
   I COULD hire a runner, and book him or her passage on a sailing ship to deliver the coin, though that means of delivery was rendered obsolete in the 19th century with the invention of International Postal services.
   
   In order for me to pay the 60 GBP, I have to (1) get a money order at the Post Office, or (2) send a personal check (which winds up costing me another 50% in fees). Then wait on line to purchase an appropriate stamp to mail the check to the UK. The Postal Service was a great convenience in the 19th century, and still the best option until about 30 years ago. It is no longer 30 years ago, however, so let's catch up with the times.
   
   The ACOC is a very nice, homely car enthusiast club. I enjoy being a part of it, far away though I am from the events and gatherings organised by the club. I assume the 33% greater annual fee for overseas members reflects the great cost of posting ACtion outside the UK.
   
   The ACOC website and ACtion are the major benefits for me. No Dinner Dances, hillclimbs or trophies for me, tucked away in the USA. Same is true for the many interested parties all over the world.
   
   I agree the forum should be open to everyone, member or not. Making membership easier (via PAYPAL or some other means) would most likely attract more paid members, and be financially beneficial to the Club. There should be enhancements to the paid Members area - an enducement to join.
   
   Who know? Maybe regalia sales might pick up. Maybe a significant increase inthe number of  annual dues payers might provide enough additional income to hire someone to undertake tasks now performed by volunteers! (Thank you, Club officers and volunteers, for all you do)
   
   The more eyes there are on the ACOC website, the better it is for the ACOC.

[shep]

Hi Rev, Don't ever feel the wall flower at an ACOC event. There are loads of interesting people to talk to who will welcome you with open arms. I will be at the Thames Ditton National Day in August so please come and find me. I will happily introduce you or any new face to other members who share similar interests. I can remember not knowing anyone in the Club, but I made a couple of friends at each event and pretty soon I was on the committee. The best way to meet new people is to either break down, or if you have the talent, help someone who has broken down. With ACs it is only a matter of time one way or the other! If Lincs feels a long way out, organise a gathering local to you, and publicise it in ACtion Magazine. I can't guarantee a huge turnout, but you will get to know lots of members. Good luck and see you soon, Andy.

[administrator]

Regular forum users may be unaware and surprised that there is a strong feeling in parts of the club that it has shot itself in the foot by having a forum AT ALL, never mind one that can be used by non-members which they link directly with declining membership numbers because information is available free. They see this as "corporate suicide".  A number of long-standing members will not touch the Forum with the proverbial bargepole, describing it as (quote) awful.  Others have told me that they never look at it and never will, and imply they are proud to avoid it.  Still others feel very strongly that the Forum should be in the Members' area and that it "beggars belief" that it is not.  Nevertheless, the number of regular and semi-regular users exceeds 100 so it has the largest ACOC participation and audience after ACtion.  I have argued since the Forum was introduced in the website revamp in 2006 that it should stay in the public area of the site.  By no means everyone shares this view.
   
   The subscription level, how easy it is to pay and what is provided for the money are all intertwined and open for debate.  There have been some interesting points and ideas raised in this thread.  In the UK the annual subscription is less than the cost of a tank of fuel, and putting a cheque in the post is easy.  There's no doubt that an electronic method is easier, certainly from overseas.  Paypal has been discussed in tha past and will be discussed again.  The Direct Debit scheme is a possibility but there are associated financial and administrative (i.e., time) costs.  Making ACtion optional, or by electronic download, has been considered but reducing the print run increases costs almost exponentially, so reducing the print run saves very little in printing costs although there is a saving in postage.  In other words, you would get little discount on your subscription by opting out of the magazine.

[SBB]

Well said.  Much of the feed into the Forum is puerile and banal. It is no wonder a huge nunber of Members never look at it.
   
   Other clubs such as the VSCC do not have a free for all facility on their forums and posting of comment is only open to members.
   
   I am of the school of thought that the forum as it currently exists does the club no favours. The club cannot use the AC logo any more because Lubinski, who is not a member, did not like what he saw written aboput him and wanted censorship of free speech.
   
   I rest my case.

[ANF289]

quote:Originally posted by administrator
   
Making ACtion optional, or by electronic download, has been considered but reducing the print run increases costs almost exponentially, so reducing the print run saves very little in printing costs although there is a saving in postage.  In other words, you would get little discount on your subscription by opting out of the magazine.
   

This does not compute.  Home subscription rate = 40 GBP, European subscription rate = 50 GBP, and Other overseas subscription rate = 60 GBP.   The 25% increase for European members and the 50% increase for Other overseas members can only be justified based on differences in postage, since all  other costs are the same.  I don't know about where you live, but a 50% savings is considered significant in the colonies!
   
   Pity is, this thread wasn't originally about cost, which is trivial; it's about convenience.

[dkp_cobra]

quote:Originally posted by SBB
   
Well said.  Much of the feed into the Forum is puerile and banal. It is no wonder a huge nunber of Members never look at it.
   
   

   
   I hope that this is not the common opinion of the members who don't use this forum [:(]
   
   Maybe, it's a question of generation gap and in 20 years we will reach this century.

[DGoose]

Not quite sure how a thread regarding subscription payment has developed in quite such a hostile manner but certainly for me the open forum is essential.
   
   A huge amount of knowledge and information regarding our cars is out there and much of the interesting and knowledgeable information that appears on these pages comes from non ACOC members.
   
   Personally I am very happy to pay my subscription and receive a monthly magazine but my day to day contact with the ACOC is through this forum.
   
   I may not contribute regularly, but like many I log in religiously every day to see whats going on.
   
   Far from being puerile and banal (racing desks springs to mind)threads that head off on some weird tangent offer a light relief to the working day, I just wish I had the wit to join in.
   
   Keep the forum open to all -  if the forum was closed to non-members I believe contributions would drop hugely thus diminishing what to me is an essential part of of enjoying the AC owners club.
   
   David

[Gus Meyjes]

I would entirely agree with the last few comments and I have to wonder about anyone who feels it's all banality on this forum. Maybe that's why we are not moving into the next century with our payment system either, if the content of our posts are reduced to banality, it must be that the readers with such perceptions have not moved out of the first half of last century. I am quite surprised by the turn this conversation has taken. I can't believe the opinion of some as expressed by the Admin. To me (and I know to others on this forum) it makes me feel as if the ACOC is more of a good old boys club that has difficulty responding to the different needs/wants of their members.
   I believe the forum is a wonderful way to meet other owners and non owners to discuss all matters AC and some non-AC, but related, such as race events etc. I, for one, have been able to meet wonderful people who've helped me tremendously with resources to restore my Aceca, hardly the stuff of banality. With as few people knowing anything about AC at all, closing the forum to non members would be a giant mistake. I would argue the web is THE way towards larger membership numbers, which is good for the club and greater awareness of AC cars, which is good for the values. The volunteers' efforts notwithstanding, it appears that the fact that some within the club feel the way the Admin pointed out is exactly why we have small membership numbers and seem to be struggling with expenses. As with one of the other posters on this thread: my benefits from membership are rather limited. I only get the ACtion. However, as I've mentioned before, I'd be willing to pay more for it, simply to support the vehicle that allows fans of the brand to communicate and have an organization that keeps records as well as distributes knowledge.
   
   I find it hard to believe that a very simple question is met with so much resistance. During all the time wasted online, I'm sure the online Paypal pay system could have been set up, and ACOC would have received my membership renewal through it already. If my suggestions and those of others, whom seem to be the most frequent users of this forum, are simply ignored, it seems to me the forum would become obsolete. Just look at who most frequently posts and listen to the needs of your highest users. It would seem to me any club should take those suggestions to heart. Any business would listen to the needs of their best clients, or they would be out of business....oh, wait, that seems to be the problem here as well....
   
   Gus
   
   And sorry, Peter, she looks a lot better in that outfit than you ever could...

[cliffordl]

Well said all those who support the forum. It is without doubt the most interactive element of the Club. Action is great for content but let's face it a printed magazine is outdated and over expensive compared to what could be published online. So Publish Action online and then by all means (preferably paypal) charge an annual fee to use the forum and a higher fee to receive the printed copy. Anyone with the meerest of intent will be happy to pay say £20 to access a years bulletins and club info. Those that want a printed copy can have one printed off from a PDF and posted out. The saving on commercial printing costs would more than cover the cost of a decent printer.
   An alternative view is that as the club is in funds and currently self-financing, if the dinosaurs insist let them have
   their way and  stick with the printed Action but don't let the luddites spoil the club for future generations by scrapping the current set up of the forum which is clearly so successful. After all if they don,t like what they see they don,t have to look at it.
   
   Meanwhile if anyone wants to pay their subs but is dissuaded by the costs of currency conversion, cheque fees etc then I,ll pay your subs on receipt of a paypal transfer:
   club gets it's subs you get your mag, simple as that???

[Gus Meyjes]

One more thing, for the record: I argue that the overseas members should pay less. As one argued before me that it would not be fair for members to pay for the forum, for non members to have access, on those terms I suppose as an overseas member I should not have to pay for the follies of UK members, that overseas members don't have access to.
   
   Rings kind of familiar: Taxation without representation, I believe some time ago the English lost some tea over that argument....[;)]

[Emmanueld]

Excellent and well said Gus! Yes, with an electronic payment system, I would be current on my membership, Actually the club could keep my credit card number on file and renew automatically once a year, that would be fine. I think the forum is a great way for us to exchange information for free and in the interest of the AC marque. The problem is not the cost but the difficulty  to renew for us foreign patrons, we already spend (I speak about myself) so much time on the internet looking at various car related sites that an online form of payment would be welcomed and if the fee goes up a little to cover the cost Amen! Just my 2 cents!
   
   Emmanuel [8D]