Badges on 428s

[tim isles]

I met up with David Sanderson recently. He bought my silver (original colour) 1969 428 Fastback CF 19 from me in the late '70s. Its registration number is OOK 50 G. David ran it for some years, did his usual superb job of respraying it, this time metalic blue, and then it was sold to the US where it remains to this day.
   
   I looked through some old photos of the car with him  - these taken in the US and hence, I assume, why the knock on wheel spinners have been replaced with the 'safety' items. We were reminded that some Fastbacks had a small 'Frua' badge behind the petrol cap covers, rather than the usual small 'AC' item.
   
   I don't think CF 19 was unique in this, but I don't recall many other cars being so fitted?
   
   Tim
   

[Classicus]

Hi Tim
   
   Interesting this old thread about the small 'Frua' badge behind the petrol cap covers on your old car CF 19 which I'd missed previously until Siegfried mentioned it a couple of days ago as they're also fitted on his car CFX 13 as well. Do you know if any other cars had this badge too or would it more likely have been a customer option as I've never seen them before ? Then I can add the details to the Register hopefully with a close-up picture of one of them ?
   
   Siegfried's also wondering if you still have any interior pics of CF 19 left ?
   
   Thanks
   
   Paul

[tim isles]

Just picked up on this and I fear I can't help much, for I don't recall if all of the early Fastback 428s had the 'Frua' rather than 'AC' badges on the rear pillar. No doubt a perusal of the register pictures would reveal a pattern?
   
   Certainly the interior of CF 13 is interesting. My two former cars, CF 17 (a Convertible) and CF 19 had a similar looking 8 dial instrument binnacle, but that centre switch panel looks very home made. Both my cars had the same multi toggle switch layout. CF 19 had the early 'T' selector lever for the auto g/box. I think I do have some photos, but this layout was common to most of the early cars prior to the updated layout with rocker switches, smaller instrument binnacle and a 'U' shaped shift lever.
   
   I've never seen that combined cigar lighter/ashtray, and neither is the s/wheel one I've seen before. Most interesting is the position of the gear lever. CF 17 had the standard manual heavy change RUG g/box, I think it was called. This necessitated the the lever being placed well back, and then cranked forward to make for a more comfortable position. Has CF 13 still got a 428 under the bonnet?
   
   It's great that these cars continue to appear.
   
   Tim

[Classicus]

Thanks Tim as there's very few clear pics as far as I can tell having been through all the entries on the Register, CFX 13 and CF 19 are the only ones up till now with this Frua badge fitted instead of the AC badge. Be interesting to know one day whether this was a factory option or even something that might have been fitted by Frua himself before the cars left Italy ?
   
   If you could take a couple of close-up pics of your Frua badge for the Register sometime Siegfried that would be great ?
   
   Thanks [:)]
   
   Paul
   
   
   
   

[siegfried]

Hi Paul
   Maybe this picture ?
   If you need more no problem  just ask .
   
   Siegfried
   
   

[siegfried]

One more
   Siegfried
   
   
   http://s1137.photobucket.com/albums/n501/sieg3/

[Emmanueld]

Interesting, mostly original engine bay with the exception of the valve covers. Carburetor is the Autolite. Does she run?

[Classicus]

Thanks Siegfried excellent !
   
   To put all this into perspective for long term analysis later on have you any idea when and where the car was last used on the road and the number of previous owners ? Did any pics or other information such as bills paid for work done come with the car too ?
   
   This is because CFX 13 will be the first car we've ever discovered in such an original and unrestored state ! Consequently it would be enormously helpful and valuable, obviously when you get time (!), if you could take as many pics as possible of the car in its present unrestored condition so as to build up a full "Before and After" file of the car in the Register long before any restoration work is started. The interior, bodywork, inside the boot etc. and most of all underneath the car ideally using flash for all the dark areas and corners.
   
   Although there's very few other before and after pics in the Register at the moment, to give you an idea have a look at CF 64 - starting from the bottom. However Emmanuel (CF 54) is in the final stages of his own major restoration and has already taken an enormous number of pics. so he might be able to suggest other ideas as well.
   
   Thanks again !
   
   Paul [:)]
   Just remembered the car is now green have you done any other restoration work yet ?

[lyonheart84]

Hi Paul, I suspect in fact that Siegfried's car has had a fair amount of work done on it, but probably 20 or 30 years ago. The centre console and interior as per Emmanuel's and other member's comments look as if they have received a fair amount of modification, certainly the central switch panel is totally wrong even for an early car ( remember we previously owned CF14 which at the time was totally original barring one repaint and it was very different to this car inside ), and it's not clear from looking at the other photos but I also can't make out jacking holes visible on the sills ( rockers to American readers ) so these may well have been changed some years ago. I'm not convinced the colour is original as it does not compliment the odd colour of the doors and seats, but no doubt Siegfried will discover more as he progresses with the refurbishment.

[lyonheart84]

If the leather is the original colour, then is it more likely the car was originally white or gold? what do you think Paul and Emmanuel?

[Classicus]

Pity but thanks Brett. Any idea looking through the Register which fastback and convertible are the most original so that there's at least some yardsticks to go by in future ?

[lyonheart84]

Well Paul to be honest I reckon most of them have been restored or refurbished to a degree by now so I don't think there is any lack of information about what is correct and what is not. After all AC changed/developed/updated the cars continuously through the period of production so many of them have differences according to what parts were available. Hard to say therefore what is 'correct' as the original owner could easily have specified different items or colours that we do not know about..........

[J Jones]

Thank you Brett!
   As an example: My car came to me with Koni shocks, not Armstrongs.
   In order to mount the Koni's, there was some alteration done at the mounting points.
   Was the alteration done at the factory, or afterwards? It's hard/impossible to know.
   The shocks themselves were identical to those used on Cobras. Period-correct orange Koni's. So "original" that, when I replaced them, they went onto an "original" big-block Cobra being restored at Mike McCluskey's shop.
   So why did I change them?
   The springs and shocks were appropriate for the lighter Cobra roadster. They weren't properly rated for the weight of 428 to begin with.
   But the koni shocks were period-correct items. It's just as hard (and illogical) to believe  that they were retrofitted as it is to believe that the car was sold originally with the koni shocks installed.
   Might AC have used koni shocks left over from Big-Block production? Might they have been specified in the original build? Maybe... who knows?
   In the absence of records, careful "archaeological" examination tells the story.
   I could go on, but I'll restrain myself.

[lyonheart84]

As a PS I looked closely at the photos of Siegfried's car and the paintwork is hazy and orange peely, and I can even see overspray on the chrome so definitely not original paintwork, but panel work looks straight and original except possibly the sills if they no longer have the jacking holes. Still it looks a great unrusted car to restore, great luck for Siegfried to be able to buy it........

[Emmanueld]

Sorry Brett, I don't know much about AC color/interior coordination, did AC have paint codes? What I can say is that cooling fans, steering wheel, switches and valve covers are after market. Possibly, the radiator expansion tank has been modified with a weird cap in front of the radiator cap, unless it's just sitting there.
   Emmanuel[:)]