Rear Wing for sale on ebay

[cliffordl]

For any fastback owners missing or requiring a rear wing one is currently available on ebay uk site, bid to 99p at the moment!

[nikbj68]

Give us a clue! Seriously, I can`t find it... and it`s DRIVING ME MAD!!!
   
   [edit]DOH! found it. "The seller ended the auction early as the item is no longer available."
   
   [:(]

[lyonheart84]

That was my 428 Frua rear wing on E-Bay. It's left-hand side and brand new, I bought it at least 25 years ago for a Frua I was restoring but then didn't need to use the wing. I took it off E-Bay for an American gentleman with a 428 but have to get a carriage costing before we know if it's viable to send it to him. If not and he doesn't want the panel then I'm happy to sell it here as I'm unlikely to buy another Frua. [:)]

[J Jones]

I am "the American gentleman", and am working on getting it here to the USA.
   
   Emmanuel's car has turned out to be a (seemingly) deep pit of bungled repairs and hidden corrosion. I have been very happy with the condition my car sofar, though when it comes time to paint... who knows?!
   
   Emmanuel has found a well equipped and talented metalsmith here. We've talked about making parts, and apparently his guys can not only make a reproduction of the rear panel, but a mirror image of it as well. Having an original, undamaged part should make the job easier and more satisfactory. If the dollar keeps falling, it might be cheaper as well to make it in the USA.
   
   Short of having the original body buck, this seems a good chance for making two visually critical body panels available. Sills are easy. Doors are easy. The front and front fenders are not as easy. Anyone out have those parts?
   
   It's my intention to keep this bad boy, and if I need it (or if anyone else does), have it reproduced. Othewise, I'll save it as a pattern.

[lyonheart84]

Hi Jeff I assumed you'd be posting here anyway as obviously I'd read lots of your and Emmanuel's original posts on this forum. I have to say that your car looks correct and untouched in your photos and video so probably would not need restoring but I always worry more about an unfortunate accident rather than rust developing. For sure we'll find a sensible shipping method ! Brett

[J Jones]

Hi Brett. Accidents happen, and as I actually use this car, more road time make accidents a greater likelihood.
   
   I've looked into computer mapping as a possibilty for an assist in reproducing body panels. Having accurate dimensions would be very useful. A computer map could provide accurate blueprints for any portion of the body, or even be used in a 3D printer to create a form.  Awfully expensive for one person to undertake though.
   
   I'm meeting Emmanuel at the metalsmiths today. It would have been useful (easier) for them to have plans that gave them the exact profile for the wheel arch they made. With a computer map, you could print a full size paper pattern including elevations.

[Classicus]

Hi Jeff
   
   Haven't the slightest clue about the right technical wording and just a passing thought but as I've never seen or read anything on this topic before, I wonder where all Pietro's original wooden jigs/ bucks whatever the wretched things are called, might have finished up ? Might be worth a thought in the long run ?

[J Jones]

You know.. It's possible Stefan Dierkes might have a clue - he has the Frua website. Maybe he knows what happened to the contents of Mr. Fruas atelier.
   
   Went with Emmanuel to check out his car, and have the guys examine mine. It was a useful trip. Unfortunately, another suspect repair was found - a really old one done with bronze.  While it wasn't the Micky Mouse job done a decade or so ago, the brazing is separating, so they're going to fix it properly with a new welded metal piece. These guys do nice work, they're young, skillful and love what they do. Nice to see.
   
   I asked them about creating duplicate body parts. No problem! Said they'd Love to do it.
   
   So... anyone interested? Turn your rusted Frua into something as good (or better) than new?
   
   Regarding Computer mapping - both Honda and Toyota's North American development headquarters are next to Emmanuel's office. According to the metalsmiths, both companies do this on site. Now to find some friendly higher-up....

[jrlucke]

Take a look at this video on Jay Leno's website: http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/faro-3d-laser-scanner/1251080/
   
   If I recall, they do a scan of a fender to replicate the curves.
   
   There is also a shop in Corona CA, Marcel's Custom Metal Shaping, which has done one off show cars for Detriot manufacturer's and custom hot rod bodies in steel and aluminum.
   
   John

[J Jones]

Thanks John -
   
   Yup! That's what's possible now - of course, (to you, Paul), the product of the 3D printer is not a useable part - only a model. There are many other steps involved. But the video link John provided gives a good idea of what's currently available to reproduce (and improve) parts in a way previously impossible.
   
   Once the 3D map of a part has been finalized, the same program can be used to mill a part out of metal. High pressure water jet milling machines are amazing! There are laser mills as well. And traditional computer controlled cutting mills. The next step for producing the engine part in the Jay Leno video would involve one of these.
   
   Marcel's Custom Metal Shaping is a shop like Emmanuels place. They use traditional tools to shape metal. But it's now possible to use computer laser/sonar measuring tools to precisely match their work with the original pattern. Very cool! And very accurate.
   
   But there are not yet (as far as I know) machines that can produce a fender/wing to order. That reqires a costly die and a gigantic stamping machine, or a guy with the right tools to hand-fashion the part.
   
   This is sort of fun, discovering all this stuff.

[Classicus]

Thanks for the info Jeff which I think I follow ! [:D] Stefan used to visit here a long while ago so it would definitely be interesting to know what happened to them one way or the other in any case as it's hard to imagine anyone deliberately destroying them. A quick email might hopefully produce something though I wouldn't know what to ask for, perhaps Nik might be able to help ?

[cliffordl]

IIRC a stock of original panels for the 428 still exist. Last time the list of available spares for the 428 was published by the owners club both front and rear wings were available for coupes and convertables. I did enquire a couple of years ago (out of curiousity and also with the idea that spares are never a bad thing). The ACOC parts co-ordinator told me that he had all of the listed parts available except for the body panels which belonged to Andy Shepherd. I'll see if I can find the back issue to retrieve the list of parts.
   ACOC Membership is a modest £40 per annum, surely worthwhile for 12 magazines and early notification of parts/cars for sale?
   
   Cliff.

[Emmanueld]

Good to know, in case of a serious collision, when the whole wing is smashed. I wonder if there are smaller pieces like wing lips for example?
   
   Emmanuel [:)]

[J Jones]

WOW!
   Now that is a bit of valuable information.
   I see now there is a "spares co-ordinator" in the list of Club Officers in ACtion. Thank you for offering up this information!
   There have been a great number of posts on these boards speculating on parts and where to find them, but not until now has anyone mentioned that the ACOC "spares co-ordinator" has parts available. A well-kept secret, at least on this Forum.
   
   
   
   "The ACOC parts co-ordinator told me that he had all of the listed parts available except for the body panels which belonged to Andy Shepherd. I'll see if I can find the back issue to retrieve the list of parts. "
   
   
   (I think I've been too harsh here. I went through my back issues of ACtion, and - yes - there is a list of parts available. Not things like switches and latches, but useful stuff never the less)
   
   
   What list? The one painfully researched by members trying to find parts for their cars, without input from the "spares co-ordinator"?
   
   Shep - You have body panels? That's interesting...
   
   I bid for the rear wing panel listed on Ebay because I thought it might be the only one extant, and I wanted to preserve it for my own benefit (just "in case") and for others restoring their own cars. There seem to be quite a few cars on this side of the Atlantic in need of proper restoration.
   
   I need a spare windshield. There has been talk of having them made - expensive and very possibly unnecessary if there is "store" of these things. Shipping from the UK to the USA is horrendously expensive. I am reasonably certain that Mr. Frua used an existing pattern for his glass - and that there might be Windshields, and all the other glass available here in the U.S. if only one knew what to ask for.
   
   One of my first jobs when I was still a student, was working construction in Kirbymoorside, Yorkshire. My job was to go to contruction sites with the Scottish supervisor (derisively referred to as "Jock") and repair the faulty work done by the crew. Deliberately faulty work. I was appalled by the attitude of these guys, who resented their jobs, and would go out of their way to screw up. I remember going to a job, the crew sitting around on one of MANY tea breaks they took, snickering when it was discovered that they had put the plumbing of a new house in backwards. They'd flipped the plans over, and deliberately did the whole job wrong.
   
   Perhaps this bloody-mindedness lives on in Britain. How amusing it must be, sitting on the sidelines, watching others flail around when just a little co-operation could save so much time and effort.

[J Jones]

FYI, everyone who contributed to the "Identifying Frua parts" thread, here is a reply from the Administrator to my lament that there was no "parts help" in the ACOC website:
   
   
   
   
   Posted - 01 February 2011 :  09:09:02
   There is a parts list for the 3000ME detailing the part number and origin of many of the outsourced parts used by AC, which has been compiled over the years by various owners. It is included in my article on Buying, Running and Restoring and is published on the 3000ME page of this site. If such a list exists for other models we will of course publish it but it is up to owners of a particular model to put the information together and check its accuracy. So far there are NO 428 technical articles on the 428 page. An enthusiatic Mk IV owner compiled the entries from dkp_cobra's rebuild and that is on the Mk IV page. If anyone wants to do a similar thing for some of the Frua threads, please go ahead, send them in and I'll put them up.
   
   Do not ask what your club can do for you - ask what you can do for your club!
   
   
   
   I think it was very nice of the Administrator to volunteer the information he had. But if even HE does not know of the resources 'available', then it's not hard to see that this resource is invisible to most everyone.
   
   The ACOC website keeps members in touch all over the world. The internet is here to stay. How hard would it be to add a "Parts" information tab to the ACOC website? Not just for Fruas, but for all AC's. I have a Bristol 404 as well - Could the 2 liter boys use a little help with their Bristol engined cars too?
   
   This is NOT a complaint! It is a suggestion worth considering.