Some Vintage pics of Racing Aces

[aex125]

On Club Cobra a person posted a bunch on Cobra pics taken in the Southeast US in the late 60s, and buried in them are what look like a couple of Aces. Anyone recognize them?
   
   http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/70923/ppuser/27404
   
   http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/70926/ppuser/27404
   
   Jay

[AC Ace Bristol]

Jay
   
   Nice to come across the odd Period Picture of any Ace especially one from a race venue, If the pictures were taken at the same meeting / venue then there are two unknown Aces.
   
   However, as the pictures were taken 5 years apart then it could be the same (still unknown) Ace. All cars with a racing history evolve over the years, certain identification marks remain, like The Roll Hoop is similar, the mirrors and steering wheel look similar.
   However one has wire wheels with spinners whilst the other appears to have solid centre wheels and the screens are different.
   
   I err on the side they are different Aces and unfortunately cannot ID either from my data base, Lets hope Tim Isles, Jerry Van Kaleveen , Tony Bancroft  or others have more information.
   
   Keith  [;)]

[aex125]

Keith,
    I went through the same analysis and could not come to a conclusion on whether it was 1 or 2 cars. Today I took a closer look at the dash and while one has a glove box door and the other does not, there is a 4th gauge just above the speedo on both cars that looks like a custom install. I am thinking it is the same car now.
   Jay

[AC Ace Bristol]

Jay
   
   Stephan Phel, Jerry Van Kaleveen, Tim Isles, Tony Bancroft & I have scanned the picture for extra ID,  All negative. [:(]
   
   Tony Bancroft  has scrolled through his vast library/records and like wise I have scrolled through a few thousand pictures plus about three dozen photo copy SCCA Period Programm - entry lists covering the Period 1957 through 1962, Not one Ace allocated with the race number 49D or 45.
   
   So far no Identification to either of these two pictures. Hopefully someone reading this thread can spend a little time and look through their old photos or collection of race programms and confirm  ID of each Ace   .....  or could it be the Same Ace some years later.[?]
   
   That Rollover Bar is very distinctive ( home made [?] ) Not AC standard issue, However one of the photos depicts two cut outs on the rear deck that confirm it was previously fitted with a different rool over hoop.
   
   One day , I must Post some thirty or forty Period Race pictures, for
   interested Period / Classic Sports Car and AC enthusiasts to study and hopefully confirm ID of some of the Ace's. Could even be the 1st picture someone has supporting & confirming racing history of their own Ace. ( The Start of Another Chapter !!)
   
   Keith   [:)]

[jrlucke]

Another constant which led me to think the car is the same is the presence of the 62 Chevy in both photos. The color shot shows the car as being red with a white top and in the B&W there is a 62 wagon which appears to have a lighter top. (This indicates the time period is 62-63.)
   
   I don't know SCCA practices but on the old sports car racing site, the same cars seem to have different numbers from race to race and year to year. BEX154 for example seems to have been assigned half a dozen or so different numbers (although the photos all show 48).
   
   Interestingly in many cases the numbers seem to be in the 44-49 range. That car was red (they also had another as both of the Mulls drove in the same race).
   
   I'm wondering if this car is one of those in later years?

[AC Ace Bristol]

John
   
   Interesting observation, on magnyfying both pictures the dash board appears the same with the additionn of the extra gauge and the extended switch.
   
   As you point out the Station Wagon could well be the same. Looks similar to my untrained eye.
   
   The B&W picture is earlier as The Ace  appeares with a small screen and standard wire wheels, Where as in the later colour picture the Ace is seen  upgraded with a full width low perspex screen and solid center wheels. The Engine could well be a V8, hence Solid Center wide Wheels.
   
   The dating on each photo is different to that suggested by your goodself, can you elaborate [?]
   
   Registering with/for various series of races e.g. SCCA,  I was led to believe one was issued with a number which one used throughout the season, Hence many race cars had their race number and class painted on the bodywork, a good example being "Pierre Mion" race number 59CP in  1961, and 59D in 1960.
   
   Keith [:)]

[jrlucke]

I think 1970 is a bit late.
   
   While I attended most Northern CA races in 1968-73, I don't recall seeing any A.C.'s in competition.
   
   I don't recall the classes but a little research at VIR raceway shows DP being contested by Datsun 2000 and Elva (probably MGB powered Courier).
   
   With the introduction of the 911, Datsun 240Z and TR6 and with MGB and TR4's being cheap to prepare and putting out about the same power I think the Bristol's days in production racing were about over (those raced were probably getting pretty well clapped out by that time).

[jrlucke]

Forgot to note that the Racing Sports Cars site shows Pierre Mion racing A.C.'s with several numbers, mostly 59 but also 759 and 159. 59 was used on his 250 SWB and there's a photo of a formula car with 59.
   
   If I recall, the 159 and 759 would reflect another previously registered car at an event with 59 assigned.
   
   Numbers may have been issued by SCCA regional clubs such that at nationals or other cross region events numbers changed.

[AC Ace Bristol]

John
   
   Ace Bristols were most prolific in SCCA events between 1957 & 1961, there after more modern sports cars like Porsche, Austin Healy 3000 and Jaguar 120/140 with much more horse power were cleaning up the clubman classes, Whilst Ferraris, Maseratis, Cobras etc were setting the pace in the period 1962 /1966.
   Sports Racers then moved on e.g.  GT40s, Porsche 917s Lola T70s to name but three. Then to the fantastic ultra competitive Group C.
   
   Afterall in 1957/61 the Ace was based on ( Time Warp) early 1950s technology, However this led to the next generation of AC The Cobra,  As they say "The rest is History"
   
   Today Our Ace Bristol's have evolved and with modern Technology produce 10, 15 really pushing reliability 20% more horse power where as Aston Martin's and Healey 3000s have taken Steriods and increased power 50 or 60% ... which just proves the Ace was streets ahead in the mid 50s but was still built on 50's technology.
   
   Still a Ace is a Ace. .. ..  ENJOY!  [:)][:)]
   
   Keith

[pls01]

A another clue:
   The picture can be dated by the class.  When SCCA switched to "Index of Performance", I believe Ace-Bristols were put in E Production.  They were definitely in D Production at some point hence the "DP" next to the car number.  In 1961, the Ace-Bristol was moved up to C Production.  My Lime Rock grid photo shows BEX375 in CP.  I think that dampened the race results as they were outclassed in CP.
   
   For car numbers, a number and alternates were requested on the entry form.  At track registration for the event, the number was finalized.  BEX375 wore a "6".  It became "16" or "61" with just a few strips of electrical tape.  It could easily become "76" or "67" with a little more tape.
   Peter S

[jrlucke]

The Racing Sports Car site's listing of activity (limited as it is) suggests that the change from CP to DP occured in 63-64.
   
   The photo I have of Gil Ranney's car at the 1966 Spring Tucson nationals still indicates DP (i.e. 68DP).
   
   I also saw this car listed at the RSC site in 63-65 with numbers 64 and 65.
   
   Gil Ranney switched to a CP Porsche 911 shortly after the Tuscon race (1966-67) and I don't recall seeing any A.C.'s after that and don't see any in the races listed on the RSC site.
   
   Interestingly I did see a A.C."Garter Snake" with a 3500cc engine listed at Laguna Seca. That must be one of the 215 CI Buick/Rover engined cars. I also saw a CM A.C. with at 327 Chev engine listed.

[AC Ace Bristol]

Peter & John
   
   Reading through a few pages of Tony Bancroft's  Ace Bristol Racing, there are many pages devoted to SCCA events with Ace Bristol's racing in Class E during 1957 with 28 aces finishing in the top 35 places,in 1958 some 22 Ace Bristols finished the season in the top 28 whilst in 1959 Ace Bristol's took 20 of the top 24 slots.
   1960 saw the Ace Bristol moved up into Class D with 14 finishing the season in the top 29 hence the Ace Bristol was moved up yet again now into Class C with Pierre Mion taking honours and winning overall in 1961.[^] [:p]
   
   Ace Bristols were still raced in SCCA and at club level in Class Dp & Ep (P signifying production) through to 1965/1966, Where upon they were being out classed.[:(]
   
   A Bloody Good Show for ten years in USA, England and Europe.
   
   Keith [:)]

[aex125]

John, do you have a collection of pictures of racing Aces from the '60s especially some from Tucson? AEX125 supposedly came from Tucson in the mid 60's and had been modified w/ a roll bar, 289, and a Cobraized front end. I've managed to trace the history back to there, but the trail has gone cold and if you have any pics or info that might help me. For reference, here is a link to what info I have on AEX125.
   http://members.cox.net/sfm081/Acerev2History.html
   Sorry to bore others on the list by sending the link again, but many times it has brought back new info.
   Jay

[AC Ace Bristol]

Jay
   
   Read your History file with interest, sent you a couple of emails making reference to ACs in  Tucson,  Hope the contents prove to be  the missing link or points you in the right direction in piecing together your History file on AEX125.
   
   Good Luck
   
   Keith  [;)]

[pls01]

Keith,
   Does Tony's book say how long the Ace stayed in CP?.  Probably three years, 61, 62 and 63.  I have a picture of BEX375 running in CP at the 1963 SCCA New Englang Region race.  I didn't know the Ace was moved back down to DP or EP later as BEX375 stopped racing after the 1963 season.
   Peter