Value of found AC Bristol

[Cobra Ned]

A friend has advised me of a '57 Bristol that has recently been discovered in storage following the death of a man who has owned it long enough that his wife was shocked to learn he owned it.The chassis is BEX 310. I am told it is essentially a chassis and body, but have no further details. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what to tell the widow as a rough value?

[Cobra Ned]

OK, well, with no responses yet I can pass along that some kind soul has told the widow he'd take it off her hands for $20,000. I'm thinking he's a bit light. Any thoughts?

[bex316]

As always, the more details are provided the more accurate an approximate value can be given.
Does this mean it is only chassis and body, no engine, gearbox, dashboard, instruments, seats, suspension, all the numerous  smaller items? If so, I feel it is still a bit low but the condition of the chassis and body are also to be taken into account.
The car has racing history driven by Lucky Casner of Chicago in SCCA 1958 according to the Ace-Bristol register.
No other owners are stated. It was originally Off White with black interior and left the factory on 28 May 1957.
This car is 6 digits lower than the chassis number of my car and the original (missing?) engine number is 5 digits lower.

Probably Tim Isles, Keith Lessiter or others with more insight can chime in?

[nikbj68]

OK, well, with no responses yet I can pass along that some kind soul has told the widow he'd take it off her hands for $20,000. I'm thinking he's a bit light. Any thoughts?

It's not 'Richard Rawlings' light, but if there is little more to it than you mention, it's going to be a 6-figure restoration, done right.
The Lloyd Casner connection certainly should add value, I know Keith & Tim may have some historic info.
Maybe B.A.T would find its true value?

[Cobra Ned]

I will try to get a lot more information on this one.

[AC Ace Bristol]

.
Cobra Ned

Re:BEX310  Drag Raced Ace Bristol
This Ace Bristol appeared on the radar early October 2019,  The pictures published ( No date  was given as to when photos were taken)  showed the Ace Brsitol BEX310 engineless, engine mounts confirm it had once been fitted with a V8,  Hence modified foot boxes and engine mounts, rack and pinion steering and a solid back axle. with over size rear wheels,  plus a built in roll cage to comply with safety whilst  being drag raced back in the 1970s. (old sports cars had little to no real value back in the 1970s)
Door hinges confirm chassis number BEX310........ Carefully inspect before buying or setting a value.  BIG Question....  Does the this Ace have Title and Continuous History????   if not, it will not be recognised as a AC Ace Bristol , No continuous history  and No title ....  Valuation  ??.....  would be as basis for a KIT CAR. Lot less than 20K US dollars......              Would make a A great potential project..... :)

Hopefully Proof of Title and Continuous History and You or someone can invest 200K+ US Dollars or so and return it to correct 1957 Ace Bristol Specification. One needs to see the car in the flesh and work your valuation back from concours value less all the parts  and labour.
Early  (1958) SCCA Race History by Lucky Casner who went on to race Ferraris, before I believe loosing his life at  Le Mans.  Would  possibly add a little  additional value to this Ace , Again assuming one has proof of continuous History and Title.   

Keith

[Cobra Ned]

Thanks, Keith. I'm getting photos and more data from friends who know the widow. Will be back once I get them.

[AC Ace Bristol]

.Ned
Hopefully Title  and some History is confirmed, please confirm your email address  and I will forward a few pictures,  all data on BEX310 will be shared with Tim Isles the official ACOC Ace Bristol Registrar.
Great when  a long lost Ace comes up on  Radar........... BEX310 has had a hard and eventful life, Not the cheapest or easiest project, but has great potential.

Keith
keith.lessiter@gmail.com

[Cobra Ned]

Got a few photos of BEX 310. It requires some work. But the AC bones are there. Still waiting for further news on paperwork.

Ned Scudder
nedscudder@gmail.com

[Cobra Ned]

The wheelie bars are a nice touch...

[Cobra Ned]

And an interior shot...

[AC Ace Bristol]

Cobra Ned

Thank you for posting the pics of BEX310,  Definitely the same Ace Bristol  Drag Car as we have on the Ace Bristol Register, Earliest picture we have is when BEX310 was competing back in the 1970s ?
The ACOC would appreciate copy of paper work or at least confirmation that BEX310 has Title and earlier History.
Thank you Ned for following up.  Appreciated.
Please confirm email address and I will forward additional pictures.

Keith  and Tim Isles  (ACOC Ace Bristol Registrar ) ,  :)

[nikbj68]

Door hinges confirm chassis number BEX310.. BIG Question...Does the this Ace have TITLE and Continuous History????   if not, it will not be recognised as a AC Ace Bristol , NO  CONTINUOUS HISTORY & NO TITLE... would be as basis for a KIT CAR.
Hopefully Proof of Title and Continuous History and You...can...return it to correct 1957 Ace Bristol Specification.
Keith

Hi Keith.
Kit Car? ? ! !  >:(
Am I missing something here?
If you have a complete car, with it's BEX 310 chassis stampings in the correct places, why would it not be recognised as an AC Ace Bristol? And who would not recognise it? The ACOC? The DVLA?

Is there some confusion between VIN & Title?
When you say:

The ACOC would appreciate copy of paper work or at least confirmation that BEX310 has Title and earlier History.

It seems unlikely if the wife didn't even know of the car that 'Title' has been found or maintained, but the VIN is there on the car, where it has been since it was laid down at Thames Ditton in 1957.

So Basically, any barn-find AC that doesn't have a history from Thames Ditton 'til today, will not be recognised? That CANNOT be right!

Isn't 'Title' the American equivalent of our V5 registration(log book)(I understand there are differences, but in principle)?

What am I missing here?

[rstainer]

Nik,

Am I missing something here? Yes. What am I missing here? ACOC register principles previously set out in ACtion.

The Club's Continuous History, Continuity of Title and Replica principles are:

• Only ACs where there is no reasonable doubt as to continuous history are recorded as existing now
• A car has continuous history if it has been kept together as a vehicle since original completion
• A vehicle cannot have continuous history without continuity of title. If there is any doubt about continuous history the onus is on the owner or other interested party to demonstrate title continuity
• Any car built from parts originating from an AC, rather than a damaged complete car, is a Replica. If there is any doubt whether a vehicle has continuous history or is a Replica, the Club will class it as a Replica until the owner or other interested party demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt that it has continuous history.

The Thames Ditton Cobra Register's replicas appendices list some 85 cars that the ACOC does not recognised as AC Cobras. Nearly all have CSX/COB/COX car number stampings in the correct places, but the reasons these are not recognised as period Cobras are clearly set out for each car.

VIN and Title are two different things. VIN may well not be unique (see the Club's registers at www.acownersclub.co.uk) and does not imply ownership (see www.gov.uk). Title concerns the ownership of an asset.

Any barn-find AC will be recognised as an AC provided it has been kept together as a vehicle since original completion; if, however, the find is parts discarded when the vehicle was rebuilt, the vehicle title and continuous history remain with the working vehicle. Anyone buying, for example, discarded components gets title to those components, but does not get title to the vehicle from which they were discarded.

Please ping me an email if you need any further info.

Robin

[Big col]

It makes this months ACtion reading even more interesting. Like Triggers broom, three new handles and two new heads.