Wheel Offset and strength

[aex125]

I have run across what appears to be a set of original 16X4 AC wire wheels that may work for 1078, but am not sure about a couple of things.
   1. Is the offset for the wheels different for a car equipped with Disc vs Drum brakes?
   2. The wheels are 48 spoke and since I am thinking about going with a 2.6 Zephyr motor, will the 48 spoke version hold up OK or should I keep looking for the 56 spoke version?
   Thanks,
   Jay

[AC Ace Bristol]

quote:Originally posted by aex125
   
I have run across what appears to be a set of original 16X4 AC wire wheels that may work for 1078, but am not sure about a couple of things.
   1. Is the offset for the wheels different for a car equipped with Disc vs Drum brakes?
   2. The wheels are 48 spoke and since I am thinking about going with a 2.6 Zephyr motor, will the 48 spoke version hold up OK or should I keep looking for the 56 spoke version?
   Thanks,
   Jay
   

   
   
   Jay
   
   The wire wheels origonally fitted to Ace were 48 spoke and were later fitted with stronger double laced 56 spoke version, still 16" Diameter.(effective from 1957 )
   
   Bearing in mind the age of the wheels and the value of a Ace,  I would leave the 48 spoke wheels where they are and either source some good second hand 56 spoke 16 inch wheels or buy new ones from MWS Wheels (in the UK) www.mwsint.com   or email info@mwsint.com
   
   or try "Dayton Wheel products" in Ohio 45459 .... (937-438-0100)
   
   Standard AC Ace wheels fit over both Drum and Disc brakes, I believe the stub axles compensate for any difference in offset.
   
   When seeking second hand AC 16" 56 spoke wheels please bare in mind that 16" wheels from a Greyhound will not fit a Ace.( Different as they have Offset)
   
   Keep to 16" 56 spoke they suit the car, are correct period and will flex a lot less than the inferior 48 spoke units, Hence the origonal upgrade by Thames Ditton back in 1957.
   
   Good Hunting, may all your finds be Mint and Boxed (NOS)  Dream on!!
   
   Keith

[aex125]

Thanks Keith,
   That was the way I was leaning, but if someone had chimed in and said they never had problems with 48 spoked versions while driving hard, I might have been tempted. Since I do not have to have a set immediately, I will keep my eyes open and see what shows up. If nothing shows up by the time I need to have them, I'm sure Dayton will always have some they will sell me.
   Jay

[88epx]

Hi
   I agree one of the best places to look for info is on the MWS web site. They tell you what the "offset" and "backspace" should be.
   From experience it is the backspace that is vital as it dictates the room to the inner wheel arch.
   I think that on the 15" wheel its 47.60mm and less for the 16" i.e. 46.60 mm. MWS show an example of how to measure backspace.
   
   I have an Ace 2.6 and have a set of 15" cobra wires as a spare.
   They are ok on the front but no good on the back. Offers!
   
   My car runs on period widened 15" with 6" rims and 0 (zero) backspace. I would like some replacements for normal use.
   The body was made into the Cobra 289 shape by the workds aroung 1965 or 66. Steering is heavier than normal at low speed so you need to take that sort of thing into account.
   Cheers
   Rod

[AC Ace Bristol]

Jay
   
   Stay with 16 inch wheels of 4" or 4.5" rim with 165HR16 (550X16) Avon Turbosteels, you will have correct authentic appearance filling the arches with good road holding and longevity of life of tyres.
   
   By going to 15" wheels you loose the authentic character of the Ace plus the reduction in ground clearance you could have problems jacking up the car on the roadside should you experience a puncture.
   
   15" wheels of 5"/ 5.5" or with body mods 6" improve road holding for racing plus lower centre of gravity and lower roll centre, however the extra loading on wheel bearings and stub axle failure means you MUST regularly crack test and examine all associated components.
   
   We had two Aces  both loose a front wheel during one race meeting at Silverstone a few years back,  both had  wide 15" Dia 72 spoke triple laced wheels and were regularly raced throughout the year...
   
   After which Carefull attention and regular crack testing has become the norm. (Cobras are more robustly constructed but still experience similar failures due to excess loading)
   
   If your Ace is going to be used for Fast road use with some competition and say 5000 / 7500 miles per year keep to the 56 spoke 16" Dunlop style wires or money permitting Borroni wire wheels.
   
   Keith

[GaryC]

Keith....I have two Borroni wires that came with the Ace.  I believe they are 16" and are alloy....are these stronger than the stock and if I dont use them, what's a reasonable amount to ask for them.  They need restoring (polishing etc).  I also didn't notice any specs for tighting the "knock offs"...would that be three hard hammer swacks with lube??  Gary

[AC Ace Bristol]

quote:Originally posted by GaryC
   
Keith....I have two Borroni wires that came with the Ace.  I believe they are 16" and are alloy....are these stronger than the stock and if I dont use them, what's a reasonable amount to ask for them.  They need restoring (polishing etc).  I also didn't notice any specs for tighting the "knock offs"...would that be three hard hammer swacks with lube??  Gary
   

   
   Gary
   
   Borroni wheels have ali / alloy rims, which gives you a reduction of unsprung wieght, Any weight loss on a Ace used for competition can only help keep our cars competitive,  Astons, Healeys and XKs seem to be gaining BHP like its going out of fashion, whilst the Ace is loosing ground.
   
   Borroni wheels are now being remanufactured, pending on size " Dia,  Width, and offset will determinethe cost of a new wheel. Not sure of a 16" new one, but wouild guess in the region of £850.00 each give and take £50.00.
   
   Second Hand Value is down to Supply / demand and off course condition,  Not really the best time to sell with the so called Credit Crunch, keep them for a while then advertise in ACtion or on ebay. There is a good market for good S/H units.
   
   Regards torque setting for spinners, I tend to use a copper hammer-mallet until I know they are tight, after which they continually tighten as the wheel revolves ( Hence  the marking indicating there handing).  I  always regularly loosen off each spinner and then retighten, it has been known to be a real bugger to get some spinners or large centre nuts undone after many months often resulting in shearing off the odd ear  .... Frustrating to get a broken spinner off and bloody expensive to replace.
   
   To use lubricant or not ???  some do some don't,  I tend to use a light smear of copper grease but not sure if its the right thing to do..  ..  Polite suggestions only ...  thank you.
   
   Keith

[bex316]

Isn't the name of the brand Borrani instead of Borroni?
   Regarding lubricating the threads of the spinners, I use copper grease just like Keith.
   It's useful for more nuts and bolts that might become stubborn to undo after a while.
   
   Regarding the competition getting more BHP, you mention cars that all have larger displacements than the Ace, Aston at least 2.6 or 2.9, Healeys also 2.6 or 2.9 and XK 3.4 or 3.8.
   Historically we were more or less used to 2 litre ACs (Bristol engined) regularly beating these larger engined cars but advanced technology seems to rub off more on cars that originally had a less advanced design when compared to the AC.
   Also there are a lot more people tinkering with XKs and Healeys, continually 'improving' the breed or at least make it go faster. Moreover they seem to be less reluctant to do so than most AC or Aston owners.
   
   Jerry

[Robin A Woolmer]

Hopefully my new Aluminium Heads, New Camshaft Designs & Higher ratio Rockers will break the mould for the Weller engine, the inlet porting has been improved with the high lift valve, i hope to be able to significantly improve the performance.
   New head photographs will be posted on my web sit shortly, i will also have some comparitive flow measurements done to compare to an existing breathed on standard Weller head.
   So i hope to prove there is more life in the old dog afterall which i hope will ensure the Proper AC Cars can offer a bit more of a competetive edge, at least in the 2-litre class!
   
   Robin

[AC Ace Bristol]

quote:Originally posted by bex316
   
Isn't the name of the brand Borrani instead of Borroni?
   Regarding lubricating the threads of the spinners, I use copper grease just like Keith.
   It's useful for more nuts and bolts that might become stubborn to undo after a while.
   
   Regarding the competition getting more BHP, you mention cars that all have larger displacements than the Ace, Aston at least 2.6 or 2.9, Healeys also 2.6 or 2.9 and XK 3.4 or 3.8.
   Historically we were more or less used to 2 litre ACs (Bristol engined) regularly beating these larger engined cars but advanced technology seems to rub off more on cars that originally had a less advanced design when compared to the AC.
   Also there are a lot more people tinkering with XKs and Healeys, continually 'improving' the breed or at least make it go faster. Moreover they seem to be less reluctant to do so than most AC or Aston owners.
   
   Jerry
   

   
   Jerry
   
   Genuine spelling mistake ...   ...   BORRANI wire wheels not Borroni.
   
   How ever the name is spelt, doesn't detract from the fact that they are bloody good wheels and look the dogs ******** on a Black Ace.
   
   Only wish I had never sold the set  of brand new unused origonal 15" Borranis I inherited ( Still in there wrappings and Air frieght packing) when I took delivery of BEX333 in 2000. And only paid $1000 for the five.
   
   If Only I knew then what I know now !! I would have kept them.
   
   Keith