Vintage AC Six for sale

[Old Crock]

A 1929 AC Six for sale.

This is one of the last from the S F Edge era (with the tall radiator and likely 56hp engine). It is not, however, an S F Edge Special as described in the text. Engine said to be rebuilt though needs finishing and installing.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Car-1929-AC-Acedes/192721835893?hash=item2cdf1dd775:g:kXcAAOSwEtRb6ekP:rk:1:pf:0

[galfredus]

Hello!

I bought this car and am now engaged in the necessary works to get it back on the road.  I would be very interested to hear from any previous owners who may be lurking on the forum.  In fact it has quite a full history file, going back to the 50s, so I know your names and where you live(d)!

One thing I would like to know is what IS an S F Edge "Special"?  It's a term I've heard from various quarters.  I think some people assume that any car built during the time When SFE owned the company outright is somehow "special"!  I think it's plenty special enough without any such designation.

The three carbs are not original - the file contains the invoice for their purchase in the 50s.  The engine has been supplied with coil ignition rather than magneto - but I guess that may have been becoming the norm by 1929?  I think I read somewhere that coil became standard for the Magna the following year.

I've put the engine in the hands of a professional.  I might trust myself to put the engine together on an Austin Seven, but the stakes feel rather higher with an AC 6!  Once that is dealt with I'll turn my attention to the back axle. Does anyone have a view on back axle ratios?  The buff form states 5:1, which seems a little bit low to me.

The body work and fittings are a bit battered, but can be dealt with once the car is back on the road.  The car is also missing its spare wheel (19" wire wheel, Rubery Owen centres) and the Smiths water temp gauge.  If any such are hanging around in anyone's collections, I would be glad to have the opportunity to acquire them.

Last, the timing chain has had a clean bill of health, but I'm aware that the original type are hard to find, and I would be keen to acquire one to go on the shelf for a rainy day.

I very much hope to make an appearance at the national gathering on May 19th.

All best,

Geoffrey

[Old Crock]

Hi  Geoffrey

Welcome to the forum. You're now the proud owner of a vintage AC and I'm sure you'll be very happy with it.

I knew your car when in the ownership of Martin Quick who lived at the time in Gloucester (or was it Cheltenham?) I saw the car in the 1980's and then again when Brooklands Motor Co was selling it a few years back. It's in the same colour scheme now. I have a number of photos of your car – if you tell me your Email address I'll forward them to you.

In answer to the questions you raise:

The S F Edge Special was a specific model. It was available during 1926 and 1927 only. It looked very similar to the Aceca model (like you have, but there were changes to this over the years) with longer wheelbase, different dashboard etc. Importantly, the S F Edge Special had more horsepower (56 and 66bhp offered, when 40 was standard). Options included high compression pistons, different 'racing' camshaft, balanced crank, three carbs. The name 'S F Edge Special' has since been misused on a number of vintage AC's.

Three carbs have been fitted to a number of vintage Sixes, and was a factory option for retrofitting during the late 20's and later. Coil ignition was on some models in 1928, all models 1929.

You say you intend to look at the back axle. Does it have problems and what are they? You ask about gear ratios. Standard, on your 1929 model, were 5:1 (top), 7.9:1 (2nd) and 14.7:1 (1st) though the factory did offer alternatives at an extra charge of £10!

As far as I know a water temp gauge was not fitted to the dashboard in production (though it was on the Magna model) An article in The Motor 1928 showed work on thermostats, cable brakes, brake compensator etc but likely these went by the wayside due to the company's financial situation.

You should find a spare wheel, as these Rubery were not specific to AC, but where has the one from the car gone? It was with it only a few years back. The timing chain is an inverted tooth and over the years they stretch. They can be restored, tiresome riveting involved, but it can be done. One vintage owner had three on the shelf when I last saw him. When vintage engines are being restored an option then is to convert from inverted tooth to a duplex chain. Which do you now have? Both are available, but the inverted is now difficult to find and likely a 'restored' one would certainly do. Some owners who have converted the sprocket and chain still have the original type.

[Old Crock]

Period photo of GC 8609, unsure of year.

[galfredus]

That's all very interesting - thanks!  I have lots of correspondence and invoices from the Quick era.

Thanks for clarifying re the S F Edge Specials.  Where does one find this stuff out?  I've bought a few books about ACs recently, but the detail on the Vintage models always seems rather scant.

I don't yet know the state of the back axle, since the car was not running when I bought it.  The best I could do was check engagement of the gears and feel for backlash - which is prodigious by Austin Seven standards, but I understand this is to be expected with a transaxle with wormdrive.

I've read about the strengthening that can be carried out to the aluminium diff carrier and will plan to do that if it hasn't already been done.

For a 2 litre car on 19" wheels I thought 5:1 sounded a bit low (even an A7 managed a 4.9:1 axle at that time!).  Happy to note that is not the case.  However, it is my intention to use the car for touring, possibly continental, and longer legs for the main roads would be handy.

Do you know if anyone has tried fitting an overdrive?  The bit of open shaft between the clutch and the torque tube looks a convenient spot; but, of course, it's in front of the gearbox which would be a little unorthodox and might make gearchanging interesting.  Any thoughts?  Alternatively I might look at changing the final drive.  But in the immediate term I just want to get it on the road as it is and reassess on the road.

That old photograph is great.  I have a hat just like that...  Interestingly I think I can make out a temp gauge on the radiator.  The dashboard on my car is painted black and has a full set of Smiths dials, all matching, silver backed and very similar to those I've seen on Alvises of the period. 

Both the temp gauge and the spare wheel were present when the car was last on the road (as evidenced on photographs I have found on the Web).  Neither were present or available when the car was bought by its last owner - that is all I know.  Even if I revert to a rad-mounted gauge, I'll still need something to put in the hole in the dashboard!

Thanks for confirming that coil is probably right - I will continue with the existing coil/distributor in that case.

The engine has the inverted tooth-type chain.  A lot of work has been carried out to refurbish the bottom end and I understand that a conversion to a more modern chain would require that to be un/re-done.  I'm more that happy to keep the original type chain, but would like to think, when the time comes, that I would be able to find a replacement.

[Old Crock]

I wouldn't worry about the axle at the moment as the priority is clearly to get the engine together and the car roadworthy again. If there's nothing wrong with the axle I'd leave it alone. Spare halfshafts have been manufactured in the past and hub bearings, seals etc can be sourced. What you are thinking could be backlash, at the gear change, may simply be from the rods going to the transaxle at the rear.

I've heard of one car only, over many years, where the aluminium hoops at the diff had fractured and this had been running with no oil (and was a four-cylinder).

The axle ratios varied during the 1920's. There were at least two worms (four and six start) and five worm wheels with ratios of 3.83:1 to 5.0:1. With your car being so 'late' the lower gearing may have been decided upon, for example as the newly introduced buffers at the flywheel were giving better efficiency from the engine. The worm wheel is phosphor bronze so if you were to have one made it would be expensive for what might be questionable return. Another owner tried this and the result on performance was under whelming. Note that your car should quite easily exceed 60 mph anyway....and that's fast enough with rod brakes! 

As for the timing chain, the inverted tooth type is not available new, though a larger could be bought and modified (meaning individual rivet removal etc). Second-hand inverted tooth chains can also be reconditioned.

[MikeR]

I once owned the only 1927 DHC in New Zealand....
circa 1959 - 1962.  Standard  2-litre 16/40 motor.

I can't for the life of me recall chapter and verse,
nor even which volume.... but it remains etched
in necktop memory that an SF Edge Special
has a taller radiator and 6 inches extra wheelbase.

MikeR

[Old Crock]

Sorry to correct you MikeR on two of your three points.

The S F Edge Special was available only during 1926 and 1927, that is before the taller radiator was introduced in 1928. All S F Edge Specials had the shorter rad.

The wheelbase on standard 2/3 seaters is 9 ft 3 inches and on the S F E Special was 9 ft 9'' (the same as the 5-seater tourers) so, as you say, the S F Edge Special had 6 inches extra wheelbase compared to other 2/3 seaters.

Four-cylinder cars were tax rated as 12 hp and six-cylinder cars as 16 hp, so your six-cylinder two-litre would have been a 16/40.