Whither period F

[nick Godridge]

Just like to say how pleased I was to read Robin Stainers' article on the 'flexibility' of current FIA wording regarding  HTP eligibility.
   
   I am a lifelong fan of Historics, and totally agree that the current trend towards cheque book based racing is negative, when looked at from almost any perspective by those who attend races to appreciate cars from the past.
   
   One comment, given that it is the owners/competitors that are currently taking advantage of the way the regs are written, it may prove difficult to get enough support from that community to be heard by the FIA.
   
   Surely the largest body of supporters for Robins Ideas will be in the fan base for Historics'. I am sure there are many many fans out there who have strong sympathy with Robins ideas, and a wider audience, such as could be found through the pages of a magazine like 'Motor Sport' might generate enough support to make the FIA take notice.
   
   I view this trend not only as a spectator at races, but also as 1960's V8 TVR owner. It is quite obvious that some of those cars that have passed through my hands in the past, and are now racing in historic GT events, are very different cars indeed.
   
   Nick G
   MK1V owner

[rstainer]

Nick,
   
   Thanks for your kind words.There's very strong support from the owner/competitor community who want to have Appendix K enforced and not modify their cars to circumvent its guiding principles. The article quoted 1.1's first sentence but not its second & third: "Historic competition is not simply another formula in which to acquire trophies, it is a discipline apart, in which one of the essential ingredients is a devotion to the cars and to their history. Historic Motor Sport enables the active celebration of the History of the Motor Car."
   
   Continuously modifying historic cars, or building 21st Century 'interpretations', isn't devotion to the cars and their history. Either enforce Appendix K, or redefine 'historic' racing to embrace the arms race.
   
   The only proponents of the latter (other than suppliers and organisers benefiting commercially) are those who have no respect for period machinery; they're happy to sling money at cars that have many new components or no period components at all in order to be a front runner in 'historic' racing.
   
   R

[TLegate]

It seems the competitors who prefer to seek the 'unfair advantage' (to quote Mark Donohue - and many others) have held sway over the FIA, proving that (alleged) outright cheating does prosper. Thinking about that, F1 is the living proof....
   
   I have a problem with the race organisers since they are in the ideal position to legislate against the cheque book 'racers' (or in most cases, willy-wavers) but they turn a blind eye as they have to fill the grids. I overheard a conversation between scrutineers and mechanics at recent one-make historic race where the scrutineers asked how many of the entries were replicas. It was around 25% but they neither cared nor knew which was what. Who instructed them to ingore the fact?
   
   The cork is out of the bottle and it ain't going back in. Follow the money.

[shep]

I am sitting rather uncomfortably on the fence at the moment. On one hand I completely agree with Robin about originality. Historic cars should be presented in the same spec as they were raced in period. On the other hand, unless you keep developing and tuning the engine and chassis, your car will slip down the order and become an also-ran.
   
   Unfortunately we live in a competitive world where some ego driven owners/drivers think they must win, whatever it takes (Chequebook Racing). There are drivers who have no mechanical sympathy, and even less respect for fellow competitors. They will often bend the rules to the point of cheating in order to gain an unfair advantage. I also recognise that we live in an adversarial society where the spirit of our laws and any sense of justice is often trumped by clever lawyers who turn cases on some obscure point of law to produce a ridiculous result. Combine this with one of the Chequebook drivers, who has the money and connections to fight, and the FIA are hung out to dry. The FIA have their legal budgets fully committed on "modern" professional racing where countless millions are invested, and don't really understand the ethos of Historic Racing, hence the proliferation of replicas which they legitimise.
   
   I love racing, and providing the cars are built to the same spec I don't care whether we do 50 mph or 150 mph, the best man will win on the day. However if one has an unfair advantage, it is hopeless me driving at ten tenths and going a second a lap slower than the "hot shoe" in his replica.
   
   I don't know where all of this will go, but there are "Gentleman Events" where the organisers actively exclude those cars which don't respect the spirit of the rules. If they are able to fill their grids and provide better racing than the FIA, maybe the clone industry will eventually wither and die out.
   
   As Robin says, Historic competition is not simply another formula in which to acquire trophies, it is a discipline apart. The trouble is that unless everyone including Jaguars, Ferraris, TVRs, Bizzarinis, Lotus Elans, Healeys, Astons etc. observe the same spirit of a discipline apart, why should Cobras be singled out to be uncompetitive? No E Type in period ever travelled so fast or revved so high, so let's start with a level playing field where the cars are representative of what ran in period.

[aaron]

What category do the three "Shelby American Daytona Cobras" fit into for the 73rd Members Meeting next weekend ?

[hawk289]

Aaron, everyone who races at Members Meeting is meant to FIA HTP papers. For Cobra's which are well documented the difference between original vs fiction should be much easier (same for ferrari, e-Types, Mini, AC', etc.) the biggest problem is low production / next tier of racing. I wish I could run the Daimler as in period with limited slip diff, IDF downdraft and R&P steering which are all well known changes from 1960 to 1963 but that is a fight for another day. I wonder if a different approach could be taken.
   
   a. In period racing we all have to run the same tyres, so modern compounds are equal
   
   b. All meant to run to original specification
   
   So if a car in period never got beaten by another car even under different drivers, well why does it get beaten now? If a car is doing lap times that are 5-10 seconds a lap more than period, why? if this is the case pull the car out for a nice inspection. Owners would start getting the message, if you are pulled out at every race you will either a) change or b) find something else to do.

[aaron]

quote:Originally posted by hawk289
   
Aaron, everyone who races at Members Meeting is meant to FIA HTP papers. For Cobra's which are well documented the difference between original vs fiction should be much easier (same for ferrari, e-Types, Mini, AC', etc.) the biggest problem is low production / next tier of racing. I wish I could run the Daimler as in period with limited slip diff, IDF downdraft and R&P steering which are all well known changes from 1960 to 1963 but that is a fight for another day. I wonder if a different approach could be taken.
   
   a. In period racing we all have to run the same tyres, so modern compounds are equal
   
   b. All meant to run to original specification
   
   So if a car in period never got beaten by another car even under different drivers, well why does it get beaten now? If a car is doing lap times that are 5-10 seconds a lap more than period, why? if this is the case pull the car out for a nice inspection. Owners would start getting the message, if you are pulled out at every race you will either a) change or b) find something else to do.
   

   
   The three cars entered for this weeekend are certainly not three of the six cars originally built !

[hawk289]

Well Well Well, just a shame. I like Robin's approach, the approach myself and Andy have taken over the last few years is very old school. The Daimler is the same body / chassis that raced in 1960's. Every part other than a rollbar is the same that Duncan raced (actually the Body / Chassis is the original). My view, if we have fun and enjoy but still come last well who cares. If we finish high up the field that is a bonus.