Cobra destuction - Spa Classic

[SJ351]

Such a shame to see pictures of the ex-Kevin Kilvlochan (recently restored in white) Cobra very badly damaged at the Spa Classic. The car was badly rolled and the driver was very lucky to get out. Bonnet was worn throgh to the trumpets on the Webbers where it slid upside down along the tarmac. It really does re-inforce the validity of racing clone Kirkham Kobras in place of highly original mettle.
   We should all be grateful to tthose who are still prepared to show off the real cars in action.

[Flyinghorse]

Is there any difference(in £) in restoring the real thing vs. a replica? Surely its time (£/hr.) and materials, that would apply to both replicas & originals?
   I am sure as long as the continuous history is kept intact theres no issue?
   Graham

[nikbj68]

The main issue is keeping the originality. With a Kirkham, you just chuck everything that broken, bent or burnt & replace. If you look at the restoration of Ace Bristol 5 BPG you could have thrown a repro body on for a fraction of the cost of restoring the seriously battered original, it may have looked the same, but it wouldn`t be. That history lives on in the car, not smelted back into Coke cans.
   I desperately hope that COB6008 is made good and returns to the track soon, the main thing though is that the driver escaped in one piece.
   Indeed, we must thank the likes of Kevin Kivlochan, Bill Bridges, Shaun Lynn etc for campaigning original Cobras, as some of us were to young to enjoy them in period.

[Gus Meyjes]

Are there any pictures to post on this topic?
   
   Gus

[aaron]

If people want to race Kirkham Cobras, that is fine , but when they try to pass them off as real cars it is very annoying.
   
   If Kirkhams are being raced,then they should be listed in the programmes as such.
   
   I also think there should be a separate race for replicas. When I go to watch historic motorsport, I expect to see historic cars racing.
   
   I agree original cars are worth too much money to bend on a race track,but if the real car is tucked away in a garage , while a Kirkham is being raced instead, why should the Kirkham add to the real cars history ?

[nikbj68]

BUT.
   Not thinking of any particular car, If you had an original that was raced in period, crashed, repaired, crashed again, repaired again; suspension, steering & engine upgrades, bit of new chassis here, new body panels there, is it any more original now than one of the replicas? You couldn`t separate them into original & replica, coz how original does an original have to be? Parts wear, break & get replaced. To race a car with all of it`s 1960`s parts would be dangerous.

[aaron]

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   
BUT.
   Not thinking of any particular car, If you had an original that was raced in period, crashed, repaired, crashed again, repaired again; suspension, steering & engine upgrades, bit of new chassis here, new body panels there, is it any more original now than one of the replicas? You couldn`t separate them into original & replica, coz how original does an original have to be? Parts wear, break & get replaced. To race a car with all of it`s 1960`s parts would be dangerous.
   

   
   I totally agree Nick, but getting a brand new car built ,then racing it while the car original car with the same chassis No sits in a garage is what I am getting at.
    Yes lets face it these cars are up to fifty years old now, and have been crashed and repaired and of course parts wear out which need to be replaced, but that is not a brand new car is it ?
   
   I wont mention any particular cars on here either.
   
   Who`s round is it ?[:)]

[Bill P]

quote:Originally posted by aaron
   

   
   ......................why should the Kirkham add to the real cars history ?
   

   
   Surely the list of in-period race wins and who drove the car are the important part of the car's history not who finished somewhere in the 2012 Shelby Cup at Goodwood or 2011 Silverstone Classic.
   
   Bill Patterson

[shep]

Trouble is Bill, there are a bunch of egos out there, with the money to play at chequebook racing. Kevin, Bill B, Shaun, Gavin etc. play by the old rules but unfortunately can't hope to make the podium against brand new Formula 1 E Types and Kirkhams. You are dead right, the history of the car was the time it raced in period. Unfortunately the current value is often based on last week's race result, and there's the problem. We all love to drive the cars to their limits, and if there is a tweek to gain half a second, it takes enormous self control to refuse to take the advantage. Without pointing fingers, when you see cars which were completely uncompetitive in period running away with the lead, you must ask the question "how?" That said, I still love doing my best to keep up with the big boys, and with a sprinkling of rain.... the game changes!

[aaron]

quote:Originally posted by shep
   
Trouble is Bill, there are a bunch of egos out there, with the money to play at chequebook racing. Kevin, Bill B, Shaun, Gavin etc. play by the old rules but unfortunately can't hope to make the podium against brand new Formula 1 E Types and Kirkhams. You are dead right, the history of the car was the time it raced in period. Unfortunately the current value is often based on last week's race result, and there's the problem. We all love to drive the cars to their limits, and if there is a tweek to gain half a second, it takes enormous self control to refuse to take the advantage. Without pointing fingers, when you see cars which were completely uncompetitive in period running away with the lead, you must ask the question "how?" That said, I still love doing my best to keep up with the big boys, and with a sprinkling of rain.... the game changes!
   

   
   Originally posted by Daytona
   
   
   quote:
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Originally posted by aaron
   
   
   
   ......................why should the Kirkham add to the real cars history ?
   
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   
   
   Surely the list of in-period race wins and who drove the car are the important part of the car's history not who finished somewhere in the 2012 Shelby Cup at Goodwood or 2011 Silverstone Classic.
   
   Bill Patterson
   
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   
   Yes a list of in period race wins are an important part of a cars history, but not when you are racing a clone instead of the real car.
   
   Andy you are of course correct, how can the likes of the drivers you have mentioned compete with the new hot rods ?
   
   Another guy who plays by the old rules was racing in the Shelby Cup last year, CSX2116 , it the car competes in Pre 63 races, it gets fitted with a 260 engine, for the Shelby Cup last year it was fitted with a 289 which it was fitted with originally .
   
   How can a clone of CSX 2049 be listed as a 1964 car to compete in the Pre 66 races ?

[nikbj68]

quote:Originally posted by aaron...
   How can a clone of CSX 2049 be listed as a 1964 car to compete in the Pre 66 races ?
   

Because it conforms to the spec of a 1964 Cobra.

quote:Originally posted by aaron...CSX2116 , it the car competes in Pre 63 races, it gets fitted with a 260 engine, for the Shelby Cup last year it was fitted with a 289 which it was fitted with originally.

How can Cobra that left Thames Ditton in April 1963 compete in Pre63 races, just by fitting a 260 engine? That makes it not original, so it should be in a replica race!!! [xx(]
   
   I think we need to drop this line of discussion, as there is NO answer that will satisfy everyone, and it will just piss everyone off.
   Who`s round is it?
   Time Gentlemen, please.
   This is the hangover from hell. [V] [|)]

[aaron]

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   

quote:Originally posted by aaron...
   How can a clone of CSX 2049 be listed as a 1964 car to compete in the Pre 66 races ?
   

Because it conforms to the spec of a 1964 Cobra.

quote:Originally posted by aaron...CSX2116 , it the car competes in Pre 63 races, it gets fitted with a 260 engine, for the Shelby Cup last year it was fitted with a 289 which it was fitted with originally.

How can Cobra that left Thames Ditton in April 1963 compete in Pre63 races, just by fitting a 260 engine? That makes it not original, so it should be in a replica race!!! [xx(]
   
   I think we need to drop this line of discussion, as there is NO answer that will satisfy everyone, and it will just piss everyone off.
   Who`s round is it?
   Time Gentlemen, please.
   This is the hangover from hell. [V] [|)]
   
   

   
   Ahh , but 2049 was built in 62.
   
   As regards to the other car I mentioned , I emailed the owner last night,this was his reply this morning,
   
   
   Simple answer is that in my car was built in Feb 1963 (with it's 289 engine). To be eligible for the Pre '63 series it has to be presented in full '62 spec. ie leaf springs, steering box, wire wheels, and 260 engine.  His his car is one of the most original cars racing in the UK still fitted with worm and sector steering.

[rstainer]

I'd be grateful if all Forum posters would either stick to the thread's topic (in this case 'Cobra Destruction-Spa Classic') or open a new topic.
   
   If we don't do this, occasional users won't be able to rely on the higher-level Topic list which:

ceases to be complete  

 becomes less & less meaningful.

[aaron]

The above info is relevant as the original thread mentions racing Kirkhams in place of original cars
   
   
   Ok COB 6008 got wrecked at Spa, it will be repaired, as regards the bonnet the owner still has the original bonnet supplied with the car, Kevin had two new bonnets made, one with louvers one without.
   
   Yes by all means race a Kirkham , but do not try passing it off as a genuine car.