CSX 3301 Sold at Mecum Auction

[BBK]

An interesting article written by Colin Comer in the May 2013 Sports Car Market magazine about CSX 3301 (1966 427 Roadster) which sold at the Mecum Auction in Kissimee, FL on January 26, 2013.  Sale price was $779,100 including the buyer's premium.  Apparently, this car, along with two others (CSX 3217 and 3222,) were built by AC Cars in their entirety and were never sent to Shelby's shop here in the U.S. for completion and are thought to have worn the "AC" badge vs. the Cobra badge, though CSX 3301 now has Cobra badges on it.  CSX 3301 was delivered to Ford Advanced Vehicles in Slough, England to be sold, likely with the other two cars.  This car eventually found its way to the U.S. after 10 years in Europe and was originally equipped (per the Shelby registry) with a factory hard top, 428 engine and sunburst wheels.  The car now has a 427, side pipes, roll bar and Halibrand wheels.  It is white with blue stripes.  The question posed in the article is whether CSX 3301 is considered to be an AC Cobra or a Shelby Cobra and what the impact is on the car's value.  Ned Scudder of SAAC was conferred with for this article as is of the opinion that the car (and the other two mentioned) is an AC Cobra as the car was not assembled by Shelby American.  Comer asks if 3301 can be called a Shelby or an AC and is the car's value based on a sum of its parts or which factory it rolled out of?  Apparently also, there is a second car that exists that has this same chassis number that was constructed in the late 1970's.  The auction car however is the real deal.
   
   Comer opines that the new owner should hunt down the imposter car and demand that the unlawful VIN be removed (makes sense to me) and that 3301 should be restored to its original specification as it rolled out of the AC factory (also makes sense) and says that the value of this car at auction falls square in the range of what similar spec 428 big block cars have sold for recently at auction.  He thinks the price is discounted from what a 427 Los Angeles built Shelby would sell for.  IMO, if this car was fully restored to its AC factory built specification, inclusive of its AC badges, it would be a very rare car indeed.....one of three AC's built with a 428 engine.  How would these three cars compare value wise with the 32 AC 289's built with the 427 leaf spring chassis and body I wonder?
   
   Anyway, thought I would mention this article as it was very interesting.  I have scanned it and can email a copy to anyone who is interested in reading it in its entirety vs. my very short summary....just let me know.

[rstainer]

A Shelby or an AC?
   
   The ACOC uses a different definition:

Shelby Cobra: A Cobra made under an AC/Shelby contract (CSX, CS, CSB)

AC Cobra: Any other Cobra made by AC (COX, COB, A).

   AC assigned VINs to all 996 Shelby and AC Cobras using the Factory Ledger (aka The Bible) as the initial document. Three more Cobras were made in period that are neither Shelbys nor ACs: see the ACOC Cobra Register on the Club's website.
   
   A number of Shelby Cobras were assembled in the UK: 2030, 2130 (Le Mans prototype), 2131 (Le Mans team car), 2142 (Le Mans team car) etc. The ACOC defines these as Shelby Cobras; the alternative 'where finally assembled' approach, which no one this side of the pond favours, would define them as ACs.
   
   Simple definition: If it's in the AC Factory Ledger as a Cobra with 'S' in the VIN, it's a Shelby; if no 'S', it's an AC.

[nikbj68]

So if we ignore the fitting of engine, gearbox, wheels (and Shelby badges![;)]), how would CSX 3301 differ when leaving Thames Ditton from the previous or next CSX street Cobra destined to be "built" by Shelby?
   Is the only difference that it didn`t take a cruise across the Atlantic?

[Gus Meyjes]

Did we not refer to this in a previous thread as the "myopic American view"? Definitions whatever they may be, in my book they are all AC cars. It was an interesting article and I do think Comer presented a reasonable view, albeit from the American perspective.

[SunDude]

quote:Originally posted by BBK
   
...Anyway, thought I would mention this article as it was very interesting.  I have scanned it and can email a copy to anyone who is interested in reading it in its entirety vs. my very short summary....just let me know.
   

   
   Robert, I tried sending you an email through this forum, but it bounced back as undeliverable.  Did you receive it after all?  If not can you PM me your email address and I'll send you mine. Thanks, Brian

[rstainer]

It is neither observant nor helpful to characterise the people of a country (let alone a continent) as having a myopic point of view.
   
   Our US brethren quite rightly refer to the US cars (907 in total) as Shelby cobras; it was Shelby who struck the deal (AC/SA/Ford), Shelby and Ford who marketed the product, Shelby and Ford who had the US presence and Ford who did the US servicing. Having a CSX car in the US and insisting on it being calling it an AC (rather than a Shelby) would generally be considered to be quaint or not-quite-one-of-us.
   
   Definitions (whatever they may be) are important in all constructive or precise discourse (be it law, logic, philosophy, medicine, music, history etc). By all means have a debate about them, but hopefully make it a reasonable debate.

[SunDude]

At the risk of being labelled an anorak, I suppose the only original 1960s COB/COX cars that could truly be called "AC Cobras" would be the leaf-sprung 289s as the coil-sprung COB/COX cars were known as "AC 289 Sports" models.

[rstainer]

No risk whatsoever.
   
   In period AC marketing terms, your right. However, the man in the street called all of them 'cobras' from earliest times. For example, after 6104's rebuild Geoff Dempsey's September 67's Autosport advert describes its discarded parts as " Mk II Cobra, body and chassis only, bent but great potential for complete rebuild" (they sold for £15). Further, the AC Factory called all coil spring chassis the Cobra Mk II.
   
   So from the very earliest times it's been the convention to refer all the 996 'cobras' that left Thames Ditton as Cobras, be they leaf spring cars or coil spring cars (the 427 Cobra, the Cobra 427, the 427, the 289 Sports, the Cobra Mk II or the Mk II Cobra, depending on what you're reading).

[BBK]

Brian...just PM'd you.---Rob
   
   

quote:Originally posted by SunDude
   

quote:Originally posted by BBK
   
...Anyway, thought I would mention this article as it was very interesting.  I have scanned it and can email a copy to anyone who is interested in reading it in its entirety vs. my very short summary....just let me know.
   

   
   Robert, I tried sending you an email through this forum, but it bounced back as undeliverable.  Did you receive it after all?  If not can you PM me your email address and I'll send you mine. Thanks, Brian
   

[BBK]

Robin, thank you for all of your excellent commentary. It is very helpful and clarifies things from the ACOC perspective and helps me understand things better.