CSX 2358 Caveat Emptor?

[Chafford]

Deleted

[aaron]

This car is well documented in the Shelby Registry,I contacted the seller once saying that it is a replica,but got no reply

[rstainer]

This car is a replica first seen in 2001. See Thames Ditton Cobra Register (for the original) and replica leaf spring cobra Appendix (for the replica).
   
   The last known owner of the Thames Ditton 2358 as a continuous history vehicle is Allen Pankopf Ford, PA, USA, in 1964. This vehicle is believed destroyed in the 60s.
   
   The car that appeared in 2001 has features and absence of history indicating that it is not a Thames Ditton cobra. The evidence includes:
   ƒ{    ¡¥An inspection of the vehicle revealed that its primary and secondary VIN-stampings were incorrect or missing altogether. Its footbox identification tag was a reproduction with incorrect stampings and an incorrect engine number; and various features of the car-including the footboxes, pedals, pedal box, hood prop-rod, leaf springs, steering column geometry, dashboard, gauges, door hinges, inner panels, and engine bay layout-all indicated it was not the legitimate CSX2358.¡¦ [SAAC SAWR 4th edition pages 221 & 222, this public domain information being readily available.]
   ƒ{   The absence of authoritative record of 2358¡¦s existence for a thirty five year period (1965 to 2000). [To be classified as existing now a car must have continuous history as a complete vehicle since manufacture.]
   ƒ{   The car exchanges hands at a price much below a Thames Ditton cobra in similar state of repair.
   ƒ{   The recent authoritative statement that the car¡¦s body/chassis unit has no VIN stampings. [A Thames Ditton cobra has VIN stampings in five separate places.]
   
   The message is (a) research cars by examining authoritative sources and (b) caveat emptor.

[A-Snake]

quote:Originally posted by rstainer
    A Thames Ditton cobra has VIN stampings in five separate places.
   
   

   Robin, I'm sure you meant to say 7 places, right? ;-)

[rstainer]

A-Snake,
   
   I think I meant five. I wasn't counting:
   

The footbox tag ('chassis plate' to Euro readers) as it's not the body/chassis unit

Engraved VINs (normally two).

   
   Perhaps I should have said eight?
   
   R

[A-Snake]

quote:Originally posted by rstainer
   
A-Snake,
   
   I think I meant five. I wasn't counting:
   

The footbox tag ('chassis plate' to Euro readers) as it's not the body/chassis unit

Engraved VINs (normally two).

   
   Perhaps I should have said eight?
   
   R
   

   Ok, I was including the 'engraved' two in my count of seven.

[aaron]

quote:Originally posted by rstainer
   
This car is a replica first seen in 2001. See Thames Ditton Cobra Register (for the original) and replica leaf spring cobra Appendix (for the replica).
   
   The last known owner of the Thames Ditton 2358 as a continuous history vehicle is Allen Pankopf Ford, PA, USA, in 1964. This vehicle is believed destroyed in the 60s.
   
   The car that appeared in 2001 has features and absence of history indicating that it is not a Thames Ditton cobra. The evidence includes:
   ƒ{    ¡¥An inspection of the vehicle revealed that its primary and secondary VIN-stampings were incorrect or missing altogether. Its footbox identification tag was a reproduction with incorrect stampings and an incorrect engine number; and various features of the car-including the footboxes, pedals, pedal box, hood prop-rod, leaf springs, steering column geometry, dashboard, gauges, door hinges, inner panels, and engine bay layout-all indicated it was not the legitimate CSX2358.¡¦ [SAAC SAWR 4th edition pages 221 & 222, this public domain information being readily available.]
   ƒ{   The absence of authoritative record of 2358¡¦s existence for a thirty five year period (1965 to 2000). [To be classified as existing now a car must have continuous history as a complete vehicle since manufacture.]
   ƒ{   The car exchanges hands at a price much below a Thames Ditton cobra in similar state of repair.
   ƒ{   The recent authoritative statement that the car¡¦s body/chassis unit has no VIN stampings. [A Thames Ditton cobra has VIN stampings in five separate places.]
   
   The message is (a) research cars by examining authoritative sources and (b) caveat emptor.
   

   
   So the original car is not still alive as stated in the Shelby Registry ?

[aaron]

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   
The Register says the original was believed destroyed in the 60s.
   

   
   Not according to The Shelby Register.

[Gus Meyjes]

The forth edition World registry reads the following at the end of the description: " Saac has been anonymously advised that the real 2358 still exists in Washington, PA, where it was sold new in '64. SAAC respectfully requests that anyone with further information about the original 2358 or its clone please contact the Cobra registrar: cobraregistrar@saac.com"
   
   Gus

[rstainer]

The car for sale in the UK is the clone, listed in the ACOC Register as a Replica. SAWR's 'clone' categorization followed an inspection concluding 'it was not the legitimate CSX2358'.
   
   The last known owner of the original is Allen Pankopf Ford, PA, USA in 1964. The ACOC believes this car to be destroyed, on the ground that it is statistically very unlikely that a Cobra unseen and unknown of for forty five years will emerge.
   
   The SAAC is right to appeal for further information following the anonymous report it received some five years ago; the appeal's lack of response would appear to endorse the 'believed destroyed' conclusion.
   
   RS

[aaron]

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   

quote:Originally posted by aaron
   

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   
The Register says the original was believed destroyed in the 60s.
   

   
   Not according to The Shelby Register.
   

   
   The 2011 SAAC Shelby Registry??
   

   
   Chafford,the Registry comes out every 10 years.
   
   For all we know the dealer who is selling this car did not check the history of the car,and thought,he was buying a genuine Cobra to sell on,I contacted him about a year ago saying it is a replica .

[aaron]

As Gus has stated, the last paragraph from the Registry regarding this car,it does not state that the info is five years old,so I can see now how it has come to the conclusion that the car was destroyed in the 1960s.
   
   The Registry also states that nothing was heard of the car untill a car claiming the VIN surfaced in Germany in the early 90`s.

[aaron]

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   

quote:Originally posted by aaron
   

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   

quote:Originally posted by aaron
   

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   
The Register says the original was believed destroyed in the 60s.
   

   
   Not according to The Shelby Register.
   

   
   The 2011 SAAC Shelby Registry??
   

   
   Chafford,the Registry comes out every 10 years.
   

   
   And the 2011 4th edition has just been published:
   
   http://cobranda.blogspot.com/2011/01/2011-saac-shelby-registry-is-now.html
   
   
   

   
   This 2011 edition covers the Ford Mustangs and NOT the Cobras.

[A-Snake]

The current World Registry of Cobras & GT40s from SAAC is the 4th edition, dated 2008.