Crankshaft nut size

[AEX146]

Does anyone know the size of the crankshaft pulley nut on a CL engine?
It's bigger than anything I've got in my toolbox and must be something like 1" Whitworth.

Regards,
Ben Morgan

[B.P.Bird]

Ben,
The 1" Whitworth is a pretty meaty spanner and expensive. I use this in situ for timing and valve clearance setting. I think the full size spanner would be hard to use in the engine bay. In addition this smaller fabrication seems to be good enough to tighten the damper carrier and v belt pulley nut, with some small encouragement from a copper mallet, as well as for turning the crank over



Barrie

[AEX146]

Dear Barrie,
Thank you for your reply and the photo of this very useful tool. I will have to get something similar made up.
Regards,
Ben

[AEX 31]

Dear Barrie,

Thanks for posting about your "tool" it looks like something I could need!

So I will try to make one as well. Could I ask you how long it is from top to bottom?

Kind regards

Jonas

[B.P.Bird]

Jonas,
It is 11" overall and was made from some scrap bar about 1/4" by 3/4" - so long as the hole is the right shape and size to slip over the nut I don't think the rest is important, but don't make it too long if you are going to use it in the engine bay
Barrie
P.S. How is AEX 31 going, was it a good summer in Sweden ? AE 22 has done around 1,600 miles so far and is freeing up nicely. Pleased to say the brakes are working very well as I found out this morning when an eejit turned sharp left without a signal and at the last moment, having pulled up sharply. Not driving too close is a good piece of Highway Code advice....
Barrie

[AEX 31]

Barrie,

Thank you very much for the length of the tool, and yes I intend to use it in the engine bay.

No good summer at all for 31 I'm afraid. Unfortunately, last spring I experienced some pressure building up in the crank case so stripped down the engine to find that some liners had gone a bit oval! I did have an extra set of liners but no pistons... I did used to have JE pistons that are very expensive nowadays so I ended up ordering some new ones from Omega in the Birmingham area, that look great. That entire process took a rather long time but now the engine is back together again, unfortunately not in the car yet since I also had to move away from my old garage!

I only did something like 5000 miles before disaster struck, I guess the engine just got too much petrol, maybe the auxiliary carburettor was playing up... I got a new one now so let's see how that goes.

Possibly worth mentioning is that Omega's minimum order was for 24 pistons so I have a set or two waiting on the shelf if anyone is looking for a set of forged pistons for a Weller engine please feel free to contact me.

I'm happy the your incident didn't cause any harm to you or 22.

Jonas

[B.P.Bird]

Jonas,
Sorry to hear that '31 missed the summer. I've not heard of liner wear that quick and that excessive before: Maybe worth investigating a little ?
Are you certain that it is excessive fuel washing the lubrication from the liners ? The auxiliary carburetter makes a very noticeable 'sucking' noise when in operation and gives a high idle speed. I think you would have noticed. Actually 'faults' with the auxiliary carburetter are almost always  faults with the Otter thermoswitch failing in the closed position.
Is the wear in two cylinders fed by one of the carburetters ? A flooding float bowl would seem a more likely culprit to me.
Perhaps worth thinking about lubrication: What oil have you been using ? I don't think it could have been an oil system fault as that would give you bearing failures and pressure gauge warnings.
I do recollect that your engine was very nicely built and had dyno figures of 150 bhp; perhaps it is worth sending samples of the liners, pistons and rings to the builder for an opinion - not, I hasten to add, to apportion blame, but to avoid such a failure in future. I would be concerned that the ring and liner materials could be incompatible, or perhaps the rings need larger gaps.
You have me worried now that given another few thousand miles '22 and UMB 2043 will have the same problem, after all the components probably came from the same source

Barrie

[AEX 31]

Berrie,
Thank you. Thankfully I've been busy with other things so I have managed a year without driving 31. I don't know for a fact that bore washing was the reason behind the malfunction as such, but it seems a likely cause...

It can obviously had been a problem with the ring gap, ring material or the liners. But I think your right that it probably wasn't the auxiliary carburetter. However the engine builder I used is highly reputable so I doubt that he would have missed setting the ring gaps correctly. The wear was unfortunately on two different carburettors so nothing to learn from that either.
I can't remember were I got the liners so they could have been of an inferior quality, I guess. Now I've got new Westwood liners fitted that were within specification so I cross my fingers that they will be okay.

I've been using Millers 20w50 classic oil and all the bearings looked fine...

I have spoken to the engine builder but his guess seems as good as mine, i.e. struggling to understand what could have caused the problem. A local engine builder I have spoken to, that also investigated the pistons and liners do think that the problem came from bore washing. So! I've added a Lamda sensor on the exhaust manifolds so in the future I should be able to monitor the engine a bit more securely than with colour-tune and checking spark plugs!
I sincerely do hope that you won't suffer the same fate as me!

Jonas

[B.P.Bird]

Jonas,
That amount of overfueling would surely have produced some rough running and poor performance ? I have always puzzled over the point of semi synthetic oils: Given that the synthetic product is superior to the mineral product - why spoil the synthetic oil by adding mineral oil, except to reduce cost ? I have standardised all the family A.C.s (A.C. Weller, Bristol, SBF 260 and 289) on Millers CFS 15W60 full synthetic and no problems after some years.
If the wear is only two out of six then it doesn't sound like poor quality or incompatible materials. Which brings me to ask if you have fitted one or two Lamda sensors ? Of course true information would demand six, but you have to draw a line somewhere....
Barrie

[AEX 31]

Barrie,

First of all apologies for misspelling your name, my apology is that A and E are too close on my keyboard, at least for my less than slim fingers!

I must confess that I don't know anything about different oils long term effects on engine parts. The oil I'm using was recommended by the engineer builder that helped with this engine and he has used this oil in everything he has built over the last 15-20 years or so, multiple Mulle Miglias and historic racing in blown Alfas, ERAs and the like. Do you think I should change to a synthetic oil?

I'm definitely open to using something that's worked well over time for other users... on the other hand I already have a number of gallons of the 20W50 Miller oil in the garage!

I've fitted two Lambda sensors so hopefully that will tell me something once  the car is up and running again.

Something that I have been thinking about is the fact that I'm using an old ignition coil, it has been pointed out to me that a weak spark would not help in incinerate all the petrol. I've also thought about the possibility that the advanced curve on that distributor I'm using is not ideal for the engine I've got.

Grateful for any comments.

Thanks Jonas

[B.P.Bird]

Jonas,
If you have gallons of the semi synthetic then it's a bit expensive to make the change. Despite my preference for the full synthetic I cannot imagine that the semi synthetic would account for this wear, especially as we are both referencing Millers. Similarly I would not blame a weak spark - any fuel washing would occur on the intake and compression stroke - no spark involved good or bad. If the spark is too weak to give combustion then '31 would be a bit stationary and you might well notice this...
The advance curve will have an impact on performance and if extremely mismatched might give detonation, in which case you would need your spare pistons (excessive advance) on the other hand you might find the engine running very hot (excessive retardation.) Either way the symptoms would be rather noticeable long before any damage occurred.
You have not mentioned any performance issues - just crank case pressure. I assume this was getting your attention by reason of oily breather(s) on the camshaft cover ? I wonder if you did a compression check before disassembly ? If so were the two affected cylinders the ones which were lowest on compression ?
Does your engine have a full flow oil filter ? Not that I can imagine oil so 'gritty' that it would wear away two out of six liners and yet leave the bearings untouched.
All in all this is a bit of a mystery - over fuelling is an explanation, but to the extent required surely there would have been poor performance ?
Finally since you have built up the engine with new liners and pistons there is no point in ruminating over the unexplained liner wear. I would recommend taking care over the running in of the new rings and liners. Do use proper running in oil - Millers do a couple of variants, both of which I have used satisfactorily, without glazing the bores. Not so critical in your case, as the other engine components will be already bedded in, but just as well to run the engine for 20 minutes at around 2,000 rpm on first start up (not so easy as the carburetter, ignition and oil pressure settings may well impose a shut down.) Thereafter best to do a few hundred miles at varying speeds and throttle openings, including climbing a few gradients in top gear, before draining the running in oil and starting off with fresh normal oil and a new filter.
Winter soon with us Jonas so time to get going before the salt contamination starts, or is Sweden too sensible to chuck salt about....
Barrie

[AEX 31]

Barrie,

I do have quite a lot of oil left so I think I will stick to what I have for now. I haven't really experienced any problems with the engine running hot, the opposite has probably been the case if anything.

Well, I don't think I ever experienced any performance issues with this engine. For most of the 9 years I drove with this engine it worked just fine. Until I noticed some grey smoke from the exhaust pipes! This led me down a tedious and tiresome period were I after checking the compression a couple of times, I did take the head off and sure enough the head gasket was blown in between to liners. So, I sourced a new head gasket thinking that the problem was solved... but it wasn't!

Upon dismantling the engine, it was found that some of the piston rings had ceased and some carbon deposits was there as well. Which would indicate over fuelling I guess?

Yes I do have an external oil filter fitted and as I have mentioned, all the bearings looked fine.

Could I ask you which of the Miller running in oils you would think is the best for this engine type?

I am about to get my skates on with the engine work. Unfortunately, all roads are salted in Sweden when there is frost around... But usually this doesn't occur until mid to late December, so still sometime left!

Jonas

[B.P.Bird]

Jonas,
More to this story than we first heard. Given the quality of the engine rebuild I find the gasket problem hard to understand and I wonder if there is a connection in some strange way between this and the liner wear ? In any event looking ahead and prompt ACtion being required to beat the salt, these are the Millers running in oils:

Millers Oils Mineral Multi Viscosity Motorsport Competition Running In Oil

Millers Oils Classic Running In Oil 30

With a roller camshaft the requirement for extra zinc can be ignored so no additional ZDDP. Either of the above oils will work fine for running in the Weller A.C. Six although perhaps, given the Northern Hemisphere cold autumn weather, the multi viscosity oil might be an advantage. Both these oils will allow rings to bed in with liners i.e. they will allow high spots to wear down. This is very important to ensure bedded in rings which will have a long life and perform well. The biggest mistake you can make is to use a high performance oil in a rebuilt classic engine, before running in. The result will be no wear, with high spots preserved and the bores glazed.
Incidentally Millers do a Liquid Glaze Bust for anyone who has managed to get in to this problem...
With apologies Jonas I'm sure you know all this
Barrie

[AEX 31]

Barrie,
Apologies for not giving the full "story" from the start. I haven't got any idea what running in oil was used when the engine was first built. However, I have now ordered the multi viscosity oil from Miller so let's hope the future for this engine will be bright!
Thanks, you for your time and suggestions.
I will keep the Forum posted about developments regarding the engine in 31.
Jonas