Messages

Gentlemen

I believe that there is no such thing as an 'original' rubber seal between the body and the tailgate , whether on the former or the latter. Over many years I have owned 3 Acecas and none of them had seals. My present Aceca Bristol was the factory demonstrator from 1959 to 1961 and was road-tested by Autocar in their 8.4.60 issue (one shilling- 5 pence in new money!). It includes a picture of the rear end with the tailgate open and no sign of a rubber seal. The AC (Alan Turner) design provided a channel in the body across the top of the aperture to catch rainwater from the roof and the tailgate leading into shallower channels down the sides of the aperture and the water fell out below the lower edge of the tailgate. If there was an 'original' seal AC would had one on their demonstrator. I have never experienced water ingress. Are you concerned about noise ingress? Nothing wrong with the smooth exhaust note of a six cylinder and most of it swept away in the airflow.

Greg: Pleased to hear from you. We last talked on this forum some years ago about your Aceca steering. The starting point was 5 inches of free play at the steering wheel rim. I talked you out of 'pulling' the steering (high cost/benefit ratio). Following our discussions you reduced this to some 1 inch and I gave you further advice (drop arm test).  Did you eliminate that last 1 inch?

Michael

Good evening Jonas
Good news! After looking in many cardboard cartons I found one full of brake stuff including rear shoes. I have 'paired' them using the very clear picture you posted and I have 4 pairs one of which is yours. They are pretty grubby and I haven't cleaned them yet so couldn't see any part numbers. It looks like the shoes in a pair are the same but the positioning of the linings differ (leading and trailing). I am confident they match your picture.

Please call or email me (see membership list) so we can agree arrangements for collection (I am 10 minutes from M3 Junction 5) and a lunch, or maybe a dinner before or after Beaulieu would suit you better.

Regards
Michael

Jonas

You refer to 'old X's'. As Barrie Bird put it to me 'if your tyres are 10+ years old any replacements will transform your car'.

Michael

Jonas
I may be able to help. I think I have a brake master cylinder which came from Aceca Bristol BE622 (ex works October 1957)  which I wrote off. I reckon I have quite a lot of brake shoes which came from BE622 or with it. Trouble is I've no idea where they are - in my workshop, my motorhouse or one of the sheds - probably in unmarked cardboard cartons. I have a 1960 Girling catalogue which gives all Girling part numbers from specific Ace and Aceca chassis numbers but no indication as to whether there were changes at these chassis or the part numbers also applied to earlier chassis (same brake shoe but different     master cylinder numbers to those you quote).  I would want to keep a master cylinder and 4 rear shoes if they fitted my current Aceca Bristol BE722 (1959). Otherwise happy to part with excess but not keen about exporting to Sweden. Are you going to be in UK any time soon? By the way what's wrong with your two brake shoes? Are master cylinders and shoes stamped with Girling part numbers and where? (Mine will be grubby).

If I have anything you need 'top dollar' would not be the issue. The deal would be for you to collect from me in Hampshire and take me out to a good pub lunch. Should I start searching?

Michael

Jonas

Rock steady at 100 kph is better than the dreaded tracking. Needs a flat, smooth and dry road. Dare I ask whether at straight ahead you have slightest drag or a bit of free play and,if so, how much?

Michael

Good evening Jonas

Very pleased to hear that you have been able to do high speed testing of AEX31 and that it steers well and feels stable. Are we into 'rock solid at 100 mph' territory?

Regards
Michael

Eddie

I think your ignition timing is wrong. You tell us you set the AC figure (12.5 degrees btdc ?) at 2,500 rpm. But this is a static setting (we didn't have strobe lights in the '50's). Don't know anything about the centrifugal advance curve but I think it is running too retarded. Suggest you try the old trick of slackening the clamp bolt and turning the distributor in the advance direction with the engine running to see what that does. You don't mention evidence from the appearance of the plugs. Get it up to temperature, switch off and take the plugs out. Are they nice light grey/sooty black/oily black/petrol wet?

Hope this helps.
Michael

Luke

For repair kits I would try Brian Eacott (for contact details see his ACtion advert).  For identification, as Andy says, you need the cup OD and the distance between faces of opposite cups. I guess they were the largest of the standard range of Hardy Spicer UJ's.

Michael

Eric

Do you mean ERA as in Raymond Mays / Bourne / they only made 17 and all 23 have survived ?  If so which one ?

Michael

Good morning Jonas and Greg

Jonas : The Times today tells me that yesterday Copenhagen was 14C and sunny. Have you been able to get AEX31 out on the road again? And you were quite right about the Battle of Leiptzig!
Greg : Long time, no hear. Have you been able to progress the elimination of that last 1"+ of free play at the steering wheel rim of your Aceca?

Michael

Good evening Eddie

I see no reason to change the lubricant in the steering box. Nor, apparently, did Bishop or they would have provided a drain plug. The steering box lubricant is not subject to contamination as is the engine oil. Nor is it subject to high temperatures as are the gearbox and rear axle oils.  AC specified Kamoil which is trade name which seems to have vanished. When I Googled it I got into stuff about coconut oil which didn't seem relevant. I think the Penrite and Miller stuff is probably what in the old days we called semi-liquid grease. We used to put it in the rear axle of a Model T Ford because oil walked past the felt seals and soaked the brake linings. 

I think either semi-liquid grease or a heavy oil, say 90 or 140, would be fine but I would avoid mixing them. Not clear to me whether the level is low because of leakage or whether you simply want to change it. Level should be up to the base of the filler plug. If you have significant leakage you will need to replace the oil seal on the rocker shaft but you can come back to that later. Can you dip a slim screwdriver into what is in the box and identify it as semi-liquid grease or oil?  If you can my advice is to top up with what's already in there and keep an eye on level/leakage.

On another subject elsewhere you queried tyre pressures. AC's recommendation for standard Michelin X on 16" wheels was F22/R24.These are fine for normal road use. Bear in mind that that the Aceca weighs well under a ton and the tyre sections are quite high for this weight. Tyre pressures are a 'trade off' - if you are a 'boy racer' you will increase ultimate cornering power with higher pressures but at the expense of ride comfort. We have got used to our modern cars which run on 32/35 but they weigh over a ton and a half. Look at Longstone Tyres who quote something like 30/32. When I queried this they said they regarded that as maximum pressures and customers could reduce them for more ride comfort. My advice is to settle for 22/24 and increase only if you are prepared to sacrifice ride comfort.

Michael

Greg and John - Good morning

John : Liked your drawing and I agree all the data therein. Not so keen on the title - we don't have worms in our steering boxes (see my #15 above). Just pulling your leg and reminding you that pedantry is alive and well and living in Hampshire UK! Perhaps another example of 'Two nations divided by a common language'?

As I understand it the 90 degree rotation of the peg and the replacement of the Revington cover with the (adjusted) Bishop cover combined gave a 4" reduction in free play at the steering wheel. You say 'I guess the wear on the peg accounts for most of this movement'. My guess is at the other end of the range and I estimate that about 1/4" of the reduction is attributable to the peg rotation and the rest of the 4" is attributable to the Bishop cover.

Greg : Hope you have not been affected by the flooding in California. I have to apologise to you. I led you into breaking the Golden Rule - only change one thing at a time. If you want to add to the body of AC knowledge you could refit the Revington cover and see how much the rotated peg alone does for the original 5"+ free play. Wouldn't take long and wouldn't affect the current Bishop adjustment setting.

Now to the remaining 1"+ of free play. As I have said I think this comes from the linkage ahead of the drop arm (think six balljoints and the idler for starters). A careful repeat of my drop arm test should confirm or deny this. 'Looking at' and 'Starting to move' is relevant, but not reliable, evidence.

With our different terminologies we get into tom'ay'to / tom'ar'to territory as  the song goes. But we both are lucky enough to own 1959 Acecas and want them to drive as they should.

Michael

Good morning Greg

Pleased to hear that Plan B is progressing - I think you are well on the way. Not entirely clear to me but I think you have eliminated the 4" of free play coming from the steering box and are left with 1"+ coming from ahead of the drop arm. Greg, I am not writing a workshop manual - I just make this stuff up as I go along. However, as you would expect, I have some observations which you may find helpful.

1. A full repeat of my 'drop arm test' should confirm that 1"+ is nothing to do with the steering box but comes from beyond the drop arm. 2. Your description of the RH front wheel sounds like toe-out. This will not have happened overnight but will have been lost in the excessive play. Probably arises from the cause of the 1"+. Driving a few feet in reverse may change this 'alignment'. 3. Don't rush to your alignment shop. When you have got rid of the 1"+ you will want an alignment check then (12 to 13 minutes included angle between the wheels - 12.37 to be exact). 4. Read all the above in this thread and note what is relevant to you. 5. A word of caution. The danger in adjusting is overtightening the screw. You may have done this in trying to get rid of the last of the free play. When you have got rid of the 1"+ I think you should follow in detail the AC adjustment instructions. Back off the screw and go through the full procedure, noting that 1/8" free play is better than too much drag at straight ahead. Check for free, easy movement lock to lock with increasing free play away from straight ahead.

I think you are nearly there but let me know if you have problems/questions. Keep me posted on your further progress - I feel a personal involvement and will not be satisfied until you can report 'rock steady at 100mph' (you pay for the speeding ticket!).

Michael

P.S. Do you think the mileage (?88,000)  is genuine and what is the chassis number?

Greg

For 'Burman' read 'Bishop' !

Michael

Good morning Greg

Impressed by your measurements of the peg. You have identified slight wear (a bit over 5 thou on diameter) and there will be corresponding slight but acceptable wear on the cam. Just as Bishop expected and for which they provided compensating adjustment. You will rotate the peg which will have long-term benefit but will not, I think , do much  for 5"+ of free play. You say the shaft looks fine and diameter measurements would confirm this.

You are now intending to remove the steering box to 'rebuild' it. The implication is that you are of the opinion that the cause of the free play is in the steering box rather than in the adjustment of it. But where is the evidence? No opinion is worth holding unless it is supported by evidence. The only evidence I am aware of is your confirmation of no axial movement of the column (hope you had the wheels off the floor). This suggests there is nothing much wrong with the cam/column assembly, the upper and lower bearings or the shimming. Now this is not decisive evidence but it is negative rather than positive and supporting your opinion. And what would a rebuild involve? A new cam and new bearings? Hardly 'off the shelf' stuff. I think Jonas may have researched this, or have knowledge, and his advice would be helpful. I have in mind a lot of time, a lot of dollars and replacement parts of questionable quality. Sounds to me like a high cost to benefit ratio. But it is your car, your time and your cash..........

And what about adjustment? Seems to have gone out of the window. With respect Greg, I think you are going the wrong way at the fork in the road. If I were you I would refit the rocker shaft in the straight ahead position, crank and peg at 90 degrees to the axis of the cam. No need to replace the drop arm at this stage. Fit the Bishop cover plate and adjust the box, wheels on the floor. Somebody banged on about this at great length above. Only if careful adjustment failed to eliminate the free play would I think 'rebuild'. If you take the other road at the fork - rebuild, fit the Bishop cover, adjust and eliminate free play you will never know whether all those dollars were wasted and you will have concerns, perhaps, about the quality of the replacement parts. If you doubt the wisdom of my advice, ask your wife for her opinion as she is clearly a member of 'Team 59 Aceca'. 

Now, to cut to the chase (I do go on a bit). You asked for advice about removing the steering box. Unless you have evidence (sufficient, relevant and reliable) that it is broke don't fix it. My advice is to leave the steering box where it is and adjust it.

By the way, I take issue with your description of the Burman steering box as 'antiquated' (OED = old fashioned, out of date). It was good British engineering in the 1950's and still is in 2023. (Pause for 'Rule Britannia'!)

Regards and a Happy New Year to you. May 2023 be the year you get your Aceca steering safely, indeed as it did ex-Thames Ditton in 1959.

Michael