Messages

RE: Adapter Tip
   The one I expect for USA Cobras and 427 Cobras is the small diameter one with a taper at the end with a circumferential groove cut around the straight section near the taper. (There is a similar tip without the groove.)
   
   I have examined, have, or have had ones with
   • two different length body cylinders
   • three different closed ends, two different pleated versions and a round cap design
   • several different adapter tips, some tips could be ones owners swapped in somewhere along
   • two different "GB 2800" embossed caps, i.e. both marked GB 2800 but they are embossed with two different patent numbers
   
   All the parts except the adapter tips and cylinders themselves appear to be the principally the same and interchange so you can take two or more rough ones and usually build one really nice one from parts to suit the style you are after. This summer I took three bargain ones to make one pretty nice one for a friend's Cobra.
   
   Dan

Jay,
   Great input. Thanks.
   Dan

You might find the links in this thread interesting.
   
   http://saacforum.com/index.php?topic=1797.0

What sizes? Do you have any pictures that you can share?
   
   Dan

Here's a thread on the SAAC site with more information about the 2008 tour in Virginia.
   
   http://saacforum.com/index.php?topic=1493.0

Here's one of the door frames on my old car. Until the information provided in this thread appeared I had wondered for a long time why the makers went to the trouble to make passage perpendiuclar to the frame and then fill it with a screw. The holes are hold-overs from earlier models. That makes sense, one design frame then could then be used as a service part for multiple models.
   
   
   
   
   Dan

Thanks.

Peter,
   What is the hole size in your bracket?
   Dan
   rollright64@aol.com

quote:Originally posted by AC Ace Bristol
   Dan
   B4 you start trying to reinvent the wheel,  Visit the Ace/Aceca section of this Forum,  scroll back to 9th April 2008  " Spare tyre hold down" by AEX125   ...   ...  Keith
   

   Keith,
   
   I really don't desire to reinvent parts. I have a reproduction nut as stated the in original post. I seek an original part. I have been on the search since 1983 and off. This has got to be one of the rarest toughest parts to find from an original installed in 1963-64 perspective goes. I have located prototype Shelby parts of which only three or four were ever made easier. (At least even the rarest Shelby sourced part is typically recognized as something to keep with a car. I wonder how many spare tire nuts went in the trash for cars that were raced or left on the side of a road someplace.....ahhh don't need that anyway.)
   
   Function isn't the issue. I have used a reproduction nut since 1983. Money isn't the issue, I just haven't found an original unmolested one for sale at any price.
   
   A problem is this country with very many Cobra details is that so few original parts of certain types are left that early reproductions have become accepted as original. There are still some original owner cars that attend events over here. I have heard some interesting "discussion" between a concours judge and original owner that has books of photos and documents dating back to the show room floor when the judge tells them they will loose points because their car doesn't have the club accepted replacement parts on it. Ouch! Worse still, has happened to me, yours can't be original because that is not the way (insert name of one of several builders) makes new ones right now.
   
   Leads on obtaining an original from 1963-65 would be apppreciated.
   
   Dan

Jay,
   There is very much more but most of it would bore most readers I am afraid. Mr. Mannel's book is a must have for restorers of any Ford 260/289/302(non-Boss) powered car 1962-69. Even though he only briefly touches on Cobras and Cobra engine accessories he covers Fairlanes extremely well and all but very early and very late street car engines started off as Fairlane production engines. I have started a listing registry of the "000XX" Shelby numbered engines since Mr. Mannel does not tract them. I have started a database of fuel pumps used on Cobras in the CSX22XX through CSX24XX range before the Shelby numbered engines were put to use. I also have started a database of model and serial numbers for Shelby/Ford used/sold 48 IDM1, 48 IDA, and 48 IDA-1 Webers and systems designs. I am trying to document whatever I can before a point comes the history is lost to fading memories and discarded documentation.
   
   Dan

If you have an engine you question I might be able to help you find answers.
   
   Dan

Robin,
   Great idea but as rare as these are in the USA in unmolested condition (people use to sand and polish or even chromium plate them) I haven't found anybody that would even allow me to borrow a mint condition original one. I understand. I wouldn't ship off the rarest parts of my car either. I know a shop to do the casting if I had a sample. If I ever do get one for my car I will at least get as far as obtaining quotes for copies as having parts made as I need them is more common than I wish it were. I can spread the cost of making parts for my use if I get other Cobra owners interested in some also. I started a group of original Cobra/427 Cobra owners that occassionally has one member having a run of parts made to fill the desires of any in the group that want to participate. Helps from two to many owners at once.
   
   There are two different reproductions that I have seen and both are very clearly just parts to do the job. The makers made no attempt to replica the original part.
   
   The originals that I have gotten to examine were die castings. Making casting a die to make a few parts is very expensive based on Internet searches of such services.
   
   Dan

quote:Originally posted by aex125
   
Over the years I have seen leaf spring Cobra Engine #s that have always been 4 numerals which I assumed was a engine assembly # of some kind. Recently I saw that CSX2337 has an engine # of PA4041. Does anyone know what the PA designation stands for? Production Assembly, Pure Adrenalin, Post Adolesence,Plenty (of) Acceleration or?
   TIA
   Jay Peterson
   

   
   Jay,
   Regarding the serial numbering of 260/289 engines in Cobras (leaf spring chassis) finished at Shelby American in California. I can't tell you what the "PA" means in your inquiry. I have tried to find a reference or knowledgeable person for many years.  I will share my other findings and observations.  It is getting harder and harder to find original details as people forget and cars continue to get modified.
   Dan Case
   CSX2310
   CSX2551
   
   
   If any of the HP260 engines other than the first two (which had hand painted serial numbers on their valve covers in early pictures) Shelby American installed received serial numbers I have never heard of it. Those early engines are strange combinations of production Ford parts and experimental (SK- and XE- Ford engineering number prefixes for rods, cylinder heads, distributors, and intake manifolds) development pieces.
   
   The information I have accumulated so far is more than I want to type out here (casting numbers, date codes, model numbers, different versions of parts 1963-65 as Ford designs evolved as seen during examinations or reported by Cobra owners) but for HP289s as installed in Cobras new there are three types of HP289 engines I have documented, examined, owned, or had owners share information on.
   
   1) Most HP289 powered cars received HP289 engines taken out of the stock of Fairlane production engines.  These were standardized assemblies.  Shelby American added the Cobra specific details.  (exhaust system, oil and water temperature sensors, charging system, throttle linkage ancillaries, in at least 1964-65 production modifying the fuel pump  <rotate the valve body forward>  modifying the fuel pump to carburetor metal tube line installing the Eelco® brand elbow installing a jumper hose and Murray® hose clamps) These were all five bolt bell housing engines. There were some Fairlane model year or design revisions of individual parts differences between the 1963 and 1964 model years but each production HP289 engine block (not the engine assembly) received a sequential number in the alpha numeric AAXXXX form.  Mr. Bob Mannel has a registry he maintains of these block serial numbers for Fairlanes. A few of us Cobra owners have supplied him with our engine block numbers.  For example on my black car the complete block number is PA4537.  Mr. Mannel has excellent Ford documentation and published an excellent book on the 260/289/302 engines. He is not sure what the alpha characters (PA on my engine) mean. 'PA' and 'PB' are common in Cobras but there are other combinations.  The numeric characters are the sequential serial number of the engine block (4537 on my block).  On the engines themselves all the alpha characters I have seen have been stamped on the front left tooling boss and all the sequential serial numbers on the left rear tooling boss. The sequential engine number was also usually hand painted on the rear of the block in white.  Shelby American adopted the engine block serial number as the engine serial number. I have only seen a few copies of invoices from Shelby American to the selling dealer but so far all the street cars had complete engine block numbers listed on that document. My car's invoice does.  When the cars started getting supplementary identification plates riveted  to the right side foot box Shelby's shop included the 'engine number' in the field provided on the tag. Most cars' tags that I have seen to date received the full number as shown on the invoice but it is not uncommon just to find the four numeric digits. (A Cobra  that a friend owns now was originally titled and registered by the car's complete 'engine number' and not the CSXxxxx chassis number when sold new. )
   
   2) Cars finished after approximately August  25, 1964 received Shelby American assigned engine numbers. I am still gathering information here but as Cobras are some of the most modified cars of all time, finding cars with completely intact original engines is being difficult.  Based on what Mr. Mannel has told me about Fairlane engine production that operation ended for the 1964 model year as summer 1964 started and by around July 1964 the new for the 1965 model year six bolt engines were being built. Based on what little has been found in print and what I have found through my inquiries roughly sixty Cobras still required engine installation when the supply of production five bolt 1964 Fairlane HP289s ended. Roughly half of these cars received five bolt engines and manual transmissions and the balance received new six bolt engines and automatic transmissions.  These engines did not come from Ford with any type serial numbers stamped into them it seems. These engines got serial numbers in the form of "000XX" stamped on or just above the left rear tooling boss on the block. The lowest number I that I currently know what chassis it was fit into is 00004 and the highest is 00060.  These numbers appeared on invoices to dealers and foot box tags. I have a car with this type numbering myself. (Researching this car started my investigation.)
   
   
   a) The post 1964 Fairlane production five bolt engines Cobras received don't seem to be normal 1964 or 1965 engines. The engines examined so far contain mixtures of 1964 and 1965 specification parts. The engines that have been checked contain blocks that were both cast during the 1964 Fairlane production time frame but not finished then; both were machined August 25, 1964.  The lone intact engine found so far (Shelby engine number 00010) with its Ford identification tag still in place has information on the tag that  indicates that the engine was a 1964 Fairlane HP289 for a manual transmission assembled in August 1964 (which was during Ford 1965 model year production).
   
   1964 specification components identified so far
   engine block (five bolt)
   block plate (five bolt)
   bell housing (five bolt)
   cylinder heads (rare C4OE versions cast in March 1964)
   harmonic balancer
   fan belt pulley on crankshaft
   fan belt pulley on water pump
   fuel pump
   
   1965 specification components identified so far
   timing cover
   oil pan (location of drain moved for 1965 and later models)
   ignition distributor
   carburetor (manual choke model instead of previous automatic choke)
   intake manifold
   
   b) The six bolt engines used in automatic transmission cars are believed to have been a Mustang configuration.  (Finding one intact with its engine assembly line tag would tell us for sure.)  The only Cobra that I am personally acquainted with that still has its six bolt engine original drive train was hot rodded (aftermarket induction, headers, and lots of small details) in the usual manner so it is impossible to tell exactly how it left Shelby American. Its engine was assembled August 28, 1964.

Check out this video posted on YouTube(R). The last segment starts at the 1:43 mark. Does anybody know when in 1963 and where this last segment was taken? The date is of most interest.
   
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plrQFiqoO9g

I occasionally get inquiries about Cobra mascot emblems from ACOC members so I thought I would share some posts I have made elsewhere.
   
   This post is a sort of 'infomercial'.
   
   During the CSX21xx chassis range a new Cobra mascot emblem was introduced into Cobra production. Sellers of emblems, especially on ebay®, offer all kinds of parts from all kinds of sources that are definitely nothing used in new Cobra production five decades ago.  For example, there were some extremely crude aftermarket emblems with double back foam adhesive tape on their backs offered by J.C. Whitney when the cars were just a few years old.
   
   One thing that has happened is confusion with the subsequent Ford Motor Company sourced part that replaced the one Shelby American sourced for new Cobras.  The new Ford part became the production part for most 427 Cobras; probably after the Cobra part supply was exhausted. Most of the many "reproduction" emblems offered for all Cobras (leaf spring chassis cars) and 427 Cobras (coil spring chassis cars), being offered like original to leaf spring in cars particular, are copies of the Ford emblem.  By the 1980s there were copies of copies of the Ford emblem being offered 'as original' for Cobras (leaf spring chassis cars).
   
   The slide below illustrates originals of the Shelby and Ford parts in a side by side comparison.
   
   
   
   PS If you have a Cobra and have original S1CS-C emblems but one or both pins are broken off them, don't give up as pins can be replaced.
   
   http://saacforum.com/index.php?topic=26886.0