I have way too much time on my hands and so I have begun trying to identify changes made to the Aces during production, and the Chassis number where they occurred. The engine changes are well documented, but the other things are not as clear. So far I have approx 15 things on the list and am slowly working through pics I have to try and narrow the cutover chassis numbers. For now can anyone help with the following items? Next to each item I have listed the first and last chassis number that I have found so far. I would appreciate information anyone that can narrow the gap on the changeover point.
Round Tail lights- first 22 Last 49
Rectangular Tail lights- First 64 Last End Of Production
Does anyone know anything about tail lights between Chassis 49 and 64?
Inner Fenders- 1st version with shortened leading edge and rounded edge where it turns outboard First Chassis-22 Last34
2nd version with a flattened edge where it turns out board.
First Chassis- 70 last 132 Note: an example of this fender can be seen in the unknown Ace thread http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=885 about 1/3 of the way down.
3rd version with a 90 degree bend where it turns outboard
First- 214 last- end of production
Can anyone help with inner fender configurations for chassis number between 34 and 70; and 132 and 214?
The last question (for now) is the change on chassis plates from Brass to Aluminum where the last brass plate I have is 127 and the first aluminum plate is 313. Any info on chassis plated for cars in between these?
If anyone wants the complete list I have to help fill in the gaps, I can send it via e-mail (excel based) for your perusal.
Thanks for any and all help
Jay
Boy Jay, you really DO have waaaaay to much time on your hands!
Peter
quote:
Originally posted by aex125
The last question (for now) is the change on chassis plates from Brass to Aluminum where the last brass plate I have is 127 and the first aluminum plate is 313. Any info on chassis plated for cars in between these?
Jay
Jay, Did the aluminum plate continue until the end of production? I assume it's the same design as the one used on 289 Cobras? (Chassis # and Engine #)
If it is the same and ran to the end of production, it's interesting that the first two contracts of Cobras did not have chassis plates. They showed up at about the 200th car.
Peter,
My free time runs out as soon as the rain stops which may be any day, so I better hurry on this.
Jim,
The Aluminum Plate used on the Aces was different from the 289 Cobra plates. The aluminum Ace version was about 5" wide by 4.5" tall and had Grease and Oil information like the early Brass versions did; both of these also had the Engine and Chassis number stamped on them. I should have also noted that to the best of my knowledge, these 2 style plates were used on AC and Bristol Engine cars, but for the 2.6 versions a different version was used. The 2.6 version was a bare piece of Aluminum approx 4" wide by 1" tall and had the chassis and engine number only on it. From what I have read, I think the early Cobras received no plate (AC evidently didn't continue the bare Al plate) and then later used the smaller (2" x3"?)plate that is the readily available repo plate. If you want I can send you some pics of the Ace versions for reference.
Jay
Thanks Jay, I've now cleared my head to remember the AC plate.[:I]
Jay,
A most interesting subject for us diehards, even if we don't have too much time on our hands.
I have been thinking about this also now and then, even discussed it with Tony Bancroft following a few questions I had myself that fall into this category.
He said it's not always easy to find a satisfactory answer because cars may have been changed over all those years and the factory may not always have adopted a strict regime of production changes.
Nevertheless, it's still worth a try and whatever we may establish, the path leading to it can be even more interesting than the goal.
I guess there is quite a lot of information on this but it is scattered among owners and other enthusiasts. The registrars should be the centres of information but they also need input from owners.
This is one of the reasons why late 2007 I suggested setting up some kind of online "register", not to be confused with the traditional (ACOC) registers. Enough about that for now.
For a start, I know AE51 (the ex John Arnold car) still has round tail lights and BEX226 still has the brass chassis plate.
I'm sure lots of input may follow. Keith?
Jerry
I used to own AE76 in the 1970s, and I am 99% sure that it had the round type of rear lights, and the long boot lid.
John
Changeover from long to short boot lid took place between 260 and 270, more accurately around BEX266.
Jerry
Long Boot / Short Boot (trunk)
BEX264 definitely has long boot and BEX268 definitely short boot, so change over has to be between these.
Rear Lights.
John Arnold,s old Ace AE51 had round lights and AEX61 definitely has rectangular lights .... End of spare time ... ZZZzzz zzzz
Thanks all for the responses so far and the gaps have been closed a bit on a couple of the items, although John's info on AE76's tail lights seems to be an outlier at the present time. As Jerry said in his post, there are probably many variations that will surface and this is probably one of those. I have tried posting the complete list for comment, but it gets re-formatted each time so I'll post bits and pieces as time permits unless someone knows of a good way to post an Excel spreadsheet.
Jay
Jay, could you post it as a PDF?
I do not have a PDF writer, so I don't think I can generate a PDF document. I have thought about scanning it in and posting it as a JPEG, so maybe I'll try that in the next couple of days.
Jay
Jay, if you want to send me the XLS file I'll cerate the PDF and send back to you. bowmanpj@hotmail.com
Peter
All - here's Jay's spreadhseet in xml format (so you don't need Excel on your PC). Just click on the link then chose 'Open' and you should see what he has come up with so far:
//www.classic-motors-online.com/runningchanges.xml
There`s a free PDF writer HERE: (http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp) as the above didn`t want to work for me.
Looks like IE is the only browser that actually knows how to render xml, Firefox and Chrome don't seem to have that capability. I've sent the PDF back to Jay already, will also see if there's another way to get this to work.
Try this link also, should work in all browsers:
//www.classic-motors-online.com/runningchanges.htm
Peter / Jay uncle John Cobly and all.
Out of the 1700 Ace/ Aceca photos in my archive, very few actually confirm the finer details, even less confirm Chassis plates and Interior details.
However, Quickly scanned through on my lap top and noted a few items, then couldn't open up the Forum file to carry out the following updates.
Trunk Handle.......... AEX61 has Budget Locks.
BEX333 is fitted with Chromed Brass Grill, bloody heavy compared with the later Ali job, (Could have gone three/ four miles an hour faster by swapping over grills, even faster if I got rid of the two wind tone horns )
Tony Michael's Ace BE474 and K.Kays Aceca BE750 are fitted with a clock in the Speedo. Did the Aceca and Ace use same / similar instruments?
BEX333 has extended footbox on drivers side.
With AC making hand built cars for the world wide market specification of fixtures and fittings could vary, plus cars were not neccessarily registered or despatched in strict numerical order.
Hopefully some of the attached data helps narrow down change over dates.
Can Peter or Jay, update as and when ever possible.??
That's my Quota of spare time for today ..... ZZZZ zzzzzzzzzz
Peter,
Thank you for getting a link to the list, someday I'll learn this software stuff. Keith, thanks for awaking from your slumber and providing some more updates. Hopefully, there will be more coming as people go through their old pics and compare to the list. I'll keep updating as info comes in and hopefully we can get some very narrow gaps in the cut over points.
Jay
Jay
Spent ten minutes scrolling through early Ace pictures, Many early Aces have now been restored, infact usually over restored ( makes them so Sterile, loss of patina & charater ... however every one to their own, Would be a bloody boring World if every one was the same)
Unfortunately during restoration many early Aces inherit glove Box lids and T handles on the Boot( Trunk) Simple to maintain some form of security to personal possessions when leaving ones Ace unattended, The World we live in !!
Picture of AEX111 prior to restoration has T lock, where as AEX142 Restored has Budget handle .....One really needs to analyse Old black and white period pictures or inspect unrestored unmolested Aces to get accurate, realistic upgrade dates.
Keith
Thanks Keith and I agree with trying to find original B/W pics or getting info from early owners. On the trunk handle vs budget lock,I used pics from Rinsey Mills' new book which showed pics of each chassis number from the early days.In the pics there, 61 had a budget lock and 64 (Betty Haig at the starting line in June '55) had a handle. I am guessing these pics were of the original configurations, but we may never know for sure. All of this is going to end up being a best guess, but the available information is somewhat limited.
Jay
Jay
I think you really do have tooooo much free time, I scrolled through early Ace pictures, very few showing rear view, However the following 21 rear view shots are as listed.
Fitted with Budget Handle:
24,26,34,35,46,61,92,95. and 142
Fitted with T Handle:
33,40,49,51,70,72,78,89,102,107 and 111.
That's twenty minutes ( I origonally set fifteen) ....... Time for a coffee and do something more constructive with my time.
Jay can you please email the rear view picture of AE64 - Betty Haiges Ace on the Start line in 1955.
The above listing just proves what a impossible task you have taken on, However if it helps you move on then it's medicinal, Keep taking the tablets and contributing to the forum.
Keith
Keith,
Its really just that I get bored easily and with the recent rain I have had to find something to amuse myself with. Since 1078 is a 200yd walk up the hill along a muddy road, it was left to do something at the house.[|)] Unfortunately, as your recent research has shown, it looks like I am tilting at windmills in this endevour. Oh well, they say there will be sun this week so I will be able to get out, tend the orchard, ride the bike, work on 1078, and leave everyone alone.[;)] I'll try and get the Betty Haig picture scanned in this week and send it your way.
Jay